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Tricyclic Antidepressants (TCAs).

 

 

 

I'm trying to work through my issues with antidepressants.  As many of us on this site are autistic-bipolar-epileptic uberspazzen, Mouse, Kassiane and I just don't seem to get along with this class of medication.  We had to find that out the hard way.  Maybe our experiences will help you in making your decision, maybe not.

Tricyclics get their name from the three rings in their chemical compositions .  We all know how important the shape of a drug's molecular structure is when choosing a medication.

For those of you with  Major Depressive Disorder  or bipolar depression we feel that these are the official antidepressants of last resort. Honestly you're better off evaluating the MAOIs trying to get your doctor to prescribe something experimental than most of these. The jury is still out as to whether or not a CNS med like Adderall is better for recalcitrant depression than a TCA. It all depends on if you really have a depression disorder, and not a type of ADD where depression is a major symptom. Hey, that's where brain scans make this diagnosis business all the easier.

If you have mild to moderate unipolar depression or various other types of depression other than  Major Depressive Disorder  the TCAs in low dosages are fine first-line meds.  They've been around forever and are still used.  If you're 'just' moderately depressed you shouldn't be messing with an SSRI or any of the other antidepressants listed in this site anyway, as they are all for major depressive disorder, i.e. when you're depressed.as.fuck.  It's when the TCAs are applied to more intense depressions and used in their higher, allegedly safe dosages that people report nasty problems and little effect.  And in Bipolarland the TCAs tend to exacerbate mania and/or rapid cycling, if they do anything at all.  So for the old-fashioned blues and blahs, these old-fashioned meds are fine, just so long as you keep the dosage low.  Many of the TCAs, especially Tofranil (imipramine),  are good meds for migraines and other neuropathic pain disorders if the anticonvulsants don't do anything for you.  However it could be that cost is a factor in the popularity of generic imipramine, and has little to do with it being particularly effective.

The main problem I have with TCAs is Mouse found them to be exceedingly awful and I just have a personal autistic-bipolar-epileptic prejudice against antidepressants.  So part of it is mainly us, not them.

Mouse found all of the tricyclics to be icky. They all gave her nasty tachycardia (abnormally fast heartbeats) and assorted heart rhythm problems that caused her to pass out a couple of times. She had to exercise like a maniac every day to keep her weight down to 155 pounds. That's about fifty pounds more than she weighs now.  All that and they didn't do that much for her depression. The TCAs are really out of favor with psychiatrists these days, and would most likely be prescribed only if nothing else worked, yet before any last resort medications or treatments.  However general practitioners who are treating people for depression and assorted ailments will often turn to them first.  It's a cultural thing.

The thing that's not just our deal but the main reason I'm leery of them is that it's far too easy to do some real damage to yourself if you overdose on them.  Especially if you wash them down with alcohol.  That's one hospital stay that could last a very, very long and expensive time.  That's just not an issue with the modern meds.  Sure, if you take a month's worth it'll be icky, but it won't be that icky.

 

A recent study comparing Elavil (amitriptyline) to Effexor (venlafaxine) for Major Depressive Disorder (i.e. you feel  depressed.as.fuck or like Whale Shit at the Bottom of the Ocean) found that the Effexor (venlafaxine) was both more effective as an antidepressant and its side effects sucked less.  That Effexor (venlafaxine) was more effective is new information, but that it sucked less isn't.  Well, OK, that Effexor (venlafaxine) sucked less is new information.  Effexor (venlafaxine) is the new generation antidepressant that everyone loves to hate.  But that goes to show you how comparatively icky the TCAs tend to be.  You randomize 160 of people, give 117 of them drugs and the half of those taking the TCA hate it more than the half of those taking Effexor (venlafaxine).  That just illustrates part of what makes the newer meds more effective.  In your brain the newer meds aren't that much more effective than TCAs, but people tolerate them better, so are able to keep taking them, and that just makes them more effective by default.

 

 

 

In theory they should work just great, being mild to moderate inhibitors of serotonin and moderate to strong inhibitors of norepinephrine reuptake. In practice they don't always work all that well at it. They aren't absorbed and metabolized as well as the newer antidepressants, the side effects are generally harsher and they tend to aggravate symptoms of depression (e.g. lethargy, apathy) so what the hell good are they doing? Plus there are those little issues of sudden death with both adults and children being prescribed a few of them back in the bad old days before EKGs were a simple and reliable test and childproof caps were on every bottle in every house.

Expect all of the side effects you'd get from an SSRI and an NRI - nausea, headache, dry mouth, dizziness, blurry vision, constipation, sedation, weight gain - just worse   And for longer.  Plus SSRI discontinuation syndrome, although that's usually not as bad as these meds don't work on serotonin as strongly as the newer meds. They all tend to mess with your hormones, your heart and make you photosensitive.  Whatever you do, don't drink if you take a TCA.  You'll end up like one of your favorite rock stars, as the TCAs really potentiate the booze, so you get suddenly and unexpectedly drunker.  Sometimes to the point of alcohol poisoning.

 

For a lot more information on first generation (but still quite useful) meds like MAOIs, TCAs and how they compare to other antidepressants, I direct you to:

Antidepressant Comparison Chart by Loren Regier and  Brent Jensen of Queen's University School of Medicine, Kingston Ontario.   Of course it applies only for meds available in Canada, eh.  But it does cover SSRIs, TCAs, MAOIs, Multiple Reuptake Inhibitors and whatever else they have in the Great White North. 

Thanks to Trusted Minion groovyone for finding that chart for me.

You'll also want to check Nom de Plum's Summary of Psychotropic Medications for lots of information on the old-school meds like TCAs and MAOIs and how they are used for things like atypical depression.

For now, a glimpse of what the old Poppin' Zits! Consumers' Guide to Psychiatric Meds used to look like:

 

 

 

Etrafon / Triavil (amitriptyline hydrochloride and perphenazine) A hybrid of the TCA Elavil (amitriptyline) and the standard antipsychotic Trilafon (perphenazine).  In other words, it was the Symbyax of the 1980s. These, too, carry the risk of Tardive Dyskinesia and Neuroleptic Malignant Syndrome.  Allegedly a fast cure for the worst hangovers.  Freakiest side effects: Change in skin pigmentation and star-shaped opacities on the eyes. Initial dose, one 2-25 tablet three or four times a day. If needed, the stronger 4-25 tablets can be tried. Schering / Merck.

Limbitrol (chlordiazepoxide and amitriptyline HCl ). Limbitrol is a combination tranquilizer and antidepressant, with chlordiazepoxide an old-school benzodiazepine. We can just imagine this being the pill of suburban housewives in the sixties and seventies. Highly addictive, euphoric and compliant-making, it was probably the inspiration for The Stepford Wives. Freakiest side effects: paralyzed intestines, increased libido. Initial dose is three or four tablets a day in divided doses. The double strength tablets are recommended for the severely depressed. If no positive results are felt after a month, you can go up to six tablets a day. Once you feel chipper you should start working down, preferably to a maintenance dose of just two tablets a day. No half-life data are given. ICN.

Norpramin (desipramine hydrochloride). Freakiest side effects: enlargement of breasts for both men and women, "disturbance of accommodation." The usual adult dose is 100 to 200 mg per day. In more severely ill patients, dosage may be further increased gradually to 300 mg/day if necessary. Dosages above 300 mg/day are not recommended. Initial therapy may be administered in divided doses or a single daily dose. Maintenance therapy may be given once a day. Plasma level variations and half-life varied too wildly to pin down a half-life. Hoechst Marion Roussell.

 

Sinequan (doxepin HCl) Freakiest side effects: like other TCAs, Sinequan swells your breasts and balls. a starting daily dose of 75 mg is recommended. Dosage may subsequently be increased or decreased at appropriate intervals and according to individual response. The usual optimum dose range is 75 mg/day to 150 mg/day. In most severely ill patients higher doses may be required with subsequent gradual increase to 300 mg/day if necessary. Additional therapeutic effect is rarely to be obtained by exceeding a dose of 300 mg/day. No half-life data are given. Pfizer.

 

Surmontil (trimipramine) Freakiest side effects: good old black tongue and excessive breast milk when no nursing infants are present. Initially, 75 mg/day in divided doses, increased to 150 mg/day. Dosages over 200 mg/day are not recommended. Maintenance therapy is in the range of 50 to 150 mg/day. For convenient therapy and to facilitate patient compliance, the total dosage requirement may be given at bedtime. hospitalized patients start at 100 mg/day in divided doses. This may be increased gradually in a few days to 200 mg/day, depending upon individual response and tolerance. If improvement does not occur in 2 to 3 weeks, the dose may be increased to the maximum recommended dose of 250 to 300 mg/day. Wyeth.

 

Vivactil (protriptyline HCl). Freakiest side effects: All the usual TCA effects. Initial dose is 15 to 40 mg a day, divided into 3 or 4 doses. The dose may be increased up to a maximum of 60 mg a day, with all increases made in the morning dose. Merck.

For more information: http://www.fda.gov/cder/ogd/rld/16012s38.pdf

 

 

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Take care, and keep taking your crazy meds!

 

If you still have unanswered questions about this or other medications, including which one is, or combination of meds are the best for you, your best bet is to ask on Crazy Meds Talk.  Better yet, if you want to let the world know how they worked out for you and want to help out others in their quest for the correct meds, join the party.
If you 
want to discuss your issues, I suggest checking out one of the various support groups online.  
Otherwise, if you're letting me know about how much you like or hate the site, or  need to let me know about medication effects in private, then just drop a note to jerod23 at gmail dot com  Honestly, I usually don't have a lot of time to answer e-mail these days.  The snide autoresponse message that may or may not hit your mailbox is going to tell you the same thing.
Another problem is that you may not get a response even if I wanted to send you one.  You see, so many dickweeds with malicious intents and too much time on their hands have appropriated the crazymeds.org domain name to use for their spam, viruses and the like.  Subsequently some lazy-ass e-mail protection software authors just go by the domain name, and not the IP address.  So I've been blacklisted because of the actions of others.  Or the software just doesn't like the domain name because of the "crazy" and/or "meds."  Or your question about a particular medication will set off spam flags.  So the e-mail just wouldn't go through regardless.  Sorry.

 

 

 

Hey, did you find this page all by itself through Google or some other search engine? Great! But to really appreciate the entire site, you need to start here.

 

 

 

 

Dead tree references:

 

 

Mosby's 2004 Drug Guide David Nissen PharmD, Editor.© 2004.  An imprint of Elsevier.  The edition we're using isn't listed on Amazon.

 

 

Healing Anxiety & Depression Daniel G. Amen, M.D.,  and Lisa C. Routh, M.D. © 2003.  Published by G.P. Putnam's Sons.  Mouse and I are both patients at one of Dr. Amen's clinics.

 

 

 

Instant Psychopharmacology 2nd Edition Ronald J. Diamond M.D. © 2002. Published by W.W. Norton

 

 

Essential Psychopharmacology Stephen M. Stahl, M.D., Ph. D. © 2000.   Published by  Cambridge University Press

 

A Primer of Drug Action Robert M. Julien, M.D., Ph. D. © 2001.  We use the Ninth Edition.  Sometimes that comes up on an Amazon search, usually it doesn't.  Published by  Worth Publishers

 

 

Handbook of Affective Disorders edited by Eugene S. Paykel, M.D. FRCPsych   © 1992.  Published by The Guilford Press.

 

 

The Complete Guide to Psychiatric Drugs Edward Drummond, M.D. © 2000. Published by John Wiley & Sons, Inc.

 

 

Physicians' Desk Reference Editions 53 & 56 Maria Deutsch & Anu Gupta, Drug Information Specialists, et al. ©  2002. Published by Medical Economics Company.

 

 

End of books used for this article.

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Created Tuesday, November 11, 2003

Last updated Saturday, December 05, 2009

 

 

 

 

Copyright © 2003, 2004, 2005 Jerod Poore. All rights reserved.

 

Almost all of the material on this site is copyright © 2003, 2004, 2005 Jerod Poore. Except, of course, the PI sheets, those are the property of the drug companies who developed the drugs the sheets are about.  And any documents that are written by other people which may be posted to this site will remain the property of the original authors.  You cannot reproduce this page or any other material on this site outside of the boundaries of fair use copying without the express permission of the copyright holder.  That's usually me, so just ask first.  That means if want to print out a few pages to take to your doctor, therapist, counselor, support group, non-understanding family members or something like that - then that's OK to just do.  Go for it!  Please.  As long as you include this copyright notice and the following disclaimer, I'm cool with it.

All rights reserved. No warranty is expressed or implied in this information. Consult one or more doctors and pharmacists before taking, or changing how you take any neurological and/or psychiatric medication. Your mileage may vary. What happened to us won't necessarily happen to you. Nobody on this site is a doctor, therapist, or a pharmacist. We don't portray them either here or on TV. Only doctors can diagnose and treat an illness. Some doctors tend to get pissed off by patients who know too much about medications, so tread lightly when and where appropriate. Diagnosing yourself from a website is like defending yourself in court, you suddenly have a fool for a doctor. Don't be a cyberchondriac, thinking you have every disease you see a website about, or that you'll get every side effect from every medication. Self-prescribing is just as dangerous.  All information on this site has been obtained through personal experience, the experiences of my friends, the experiences of people reported on online support groups, and from sources that are referenced throughout the site.  Know your sources!  As such the information presented here is not a substitute for real medical advice from your real doctor, just a compliment to it.  No neurologists, psychiatrists, therapists or pharmacists were harmed in the production of this website. All brand names of the drugs listed in this site are the trademarks of the companies listed after them in the pages about the drugs, even though those companies may or may not have been acquired by other companies who may or may not be listed in this site by the time you read this. Always read the PI sheet that comes with your medications and never ever throw them away.  If you didn't get a PI sheet, demand one.  Loudly.  Crazy Meds is not responsible for the content of sites we provide links to.  We like them, or they're paid advertisements, or they're something you should read to make an informed decision about a particular med.  Sometimes they're more than one of those things.  But what's on those sites is their business, not ours.  Very little information about visitors to this site is collected or saved. And from time to time I do look at search terms used to find it in an effort to make the information I present more relevant. Use only as directed. Void where prohibited.

 

"Everything is true, nothing is permitted." - Jerod Poore