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Antidepressants

 

 

 

Antidepressants include:

As a class antidepressants don't just deal with depression alone. Many are approved for use with a variety of other disorders, and the are used off-label for many more, including non-psychiatric applications like MS and arthritis. These are not happy pills, the idea is to keep you from getting depressed, or whatever, not to make you euphoric. If you are getting euphoric for more than a few of days (a few is all right, you deserve a vacation now and then), there could be a problem. Sorry.

Most of the commonly prescribed antidepressants act by inhibiting reuptake of one or more neurotransmitters in your brain. Basically that means bits of your brain get to soak in your own juices for longer periods of time and that marinating makes them more tender, and you happier. Really, that's all the so-called chemical imbalance is, improper tenderizing of key bits of your noggin. There's one hypothesis that SSRIs cause you to grow more brain cells. However, the study that backs that hypothesis was done on rats. When I have some proof of that in humans I'll buy it. I don't deny that is what's happening, and you have to start your hypothesis with rats, it's just drugs do different things in rats, too. So I'll wait until they run MRIs on humans comparing before and after images before I jump on the "SSRIs grow new neurons" bandwagon. However, it's as good an explanation as any as to why nothing happens for a month or more in some people, but they work in a matter of days in others.

A month? That's right, it can take a month, sometimes two months with Prozac (fluoxetine hydrochloride), before you feel any positive results. Marinating your brain is more complicated than marinating a steak.

The other thing is picking the right marinade, er, antidepressant based on which neurotransmitter you're a little short on. The truly bare-bones page on picking the right drug for you has links to sites with algorithms to choose the best medications for depression and other disorders. There might be a way of avoiding the guessing game that most doctors use in prescribing antidepressants.  Most of what you'll get these days deal with the big three - serotonin, norepinephrine and dopamine.  My wild-ass guess / rule of thumb is that imbalances of one or more of these three are responsible for 80% of the depression issues.  It's all just a matter of figuring out exactly the extent of the tweaking and what neurotransmitters you exactly need to tweak.

 

Are antidepressants all they're cracked up to be?  Decide for yourself. 

Weighing in on the anti-antidepressant side:

Initial Severity and Antidepressant Benefits: A Meta-Analysis of Data Submitted to the Food and Drug Administration  - The analysis everyone has been discussing in the spring of 2008.  Digging up the raw data from the drug companies themselves the researchers found that unless one is truly, deeply depressed, antidepressants really aren't any better than placeboes.

Antidepressants Versus Placebos: Meaningful Advantages Are Lacking

The Emperor's New Drugs

Is it Prozac? Or Placebo?

 

And on the pro-antidepressant side:

Small Effects Are Not Trivial From a Public Health Perspective

Reflections On The Emperor's New Drugs

 

It even states in the PI sheets for the SSRIs, the miscellaneous antidepressants and multiple reuptake inhibitors (Effexor (venlafaxine hydrochloride), Serzone (nefazodone hydrochloride), Cymbalta (duloxetine)) that you should use these medications for depression only if you're presenting symptoms of Major Depressive Disorder.  Granted my experience of depression, as expressed in the FAQ for alt.depressed.as.fuck and Whale Shit at the Bottom of the Ocean, may not be the same as your experience.  But that's the sort of thinking and doing  where someone who tells a shrink over and over about a previous bipolar diagnosis and various crazy-manic actions and thoughts gets prescriptions for antidepressants with no concurrent mood stabilizers.  That is the sort of thinking and doing that gets you labeled with Major Depressive Disorder.  That is about how depressed you should be, for no good reason, to consider taking antidepressants.  If your depression isn't approaching that level of despair, day in and day out for weeks at a time, then all you really need is talk therapy that may or may not be combined with various non-drug treatments. The non-drug treatments I think are especially helpful are amino acids (particularly 5-HTP/l-tryptophan and l-tyrosine), exercise (I'm especially fond of Yoga), dietary changes that are specific to your type of depression and your own dietary needs (there is no one-size-fits all solution), and vitamin and mineral supplements.  They were barely effective for me alone, they work great in concert with my meds, but for some people and some of the mild-to-moderate forms of depression, those are really all you need in addition to some kind of therapy.

Really!

 

That's 'just' depression.  OCD, panic/anxiety, GAD, and the off-label uses of the meds are entirely different issues.  However the anxiety issue would follow a similar map.  For a goddamn year I couldn't leave my house without a careful balance of additional lorazepam to counter the crippling agoraphobia from which I suffer.  Too much and I was too zonked out to leave, too little and I was still too anxious.  Sometimes I would not see another human being in the flesh for two weeks at a time as I lived off of frozen and canned foods, being just too agoraphobic to leave and too freaked out to even deal with delivery groceries.  That is the sort of anxiety where you had better be evaluating something like Lexapro (escitalopram oxalate).  If you're not so anxious that you keep going over every little detail of every little screw-up in your life and how one little change could have completely made your life better (over-focused anxiety) or you're sweating and your heart's racing at the very thought of stepping over the threshold of the doorway to the big, scary outside world - you may very well be able to use the same sort of alternate treatments as mentioned above.

 

Is it worth going down the "alternative therapy" path before trying pharmaceuticals?  Sure!  It's your life.  It's not stupid to try less harsh, and less expensive methods.  Dr. Amen has plenty of recommendations for dietary changes and supplements to try first if meds are too big of a step to make right away.  And a lot of those methods you can keep with the meds, so it's not that big of a loss if they don't work completely.

You have to make the call between what sucks less, side effects or the ailment.  They can work for some people, they can fail utterly, or they can work in concert with the meds.  Mileage always varies!

In The moody blues: to med or not to med? Joli Jensen takes a good critical thinking approach to the issue of antidepressants, mostly from an AA perspective.

Unfortunately she makes the one big mistake of extrapolating her situation to everyone else's. Just because the meds may be too problematic for her doesn't mean they aren't a godsend for other people.

Still this is a very well-reasoned article that looks at the overall pros and cons of antidepressants for the people that, in a way, are the most difficult when it comes to medication - those with moderate symptoms of depression and anxiety. For some the meds will suck more than their symptoms. For others their symptoms suck more than the meds. These are the people where the decision to take meds or not is really difficult to make, and shouldn't be made by the high-pressure sales tactics of drug companies promising shiny, happy lives.  If you're not so depressed that you're trapped in bed day after day, but still think that your life sucks, give that article a good read. 

 

To help you decide if it's bad enough to require an antidepressant, you should be seeing a talk therapist and you should belong to a support group.  A psychiatrist is basically going to figure out the right meds for you and that's going to be about it.  Sometimes they'll do therapy, but often not.  For more information on, and reasons why you should be seeing a talk therapist and belong to a support group, take a look at my page on support groups.  Both will help you determine if you really do need antidepressants.  And if you do, the services of both therapist and support group are vital to complete what the antidepressants do.  Meds alone are not going to fix your problems!
 

I'm still trying to work out a way to help people decide which meds to try first.  Apparently no such method currently exists, and it really is a matter of try whatever is on the top of the HMO/insurance formulary, or whatever worked best for your doctor's previous patient.  If you're wondering if TCAs or SSRIs or one of the other classes of antidepressants are better for you based on which works best overall, we could do dueling studies for weeks at a time "proving" one type of med is better than the other.  The med that works for you is the type of med that works best.  

 

There are a few things common to all antidepressants that you need to be aware of.   This is all information gleaned from the PI sheets and anecdotal evidence from the users of a wide spectrum of antidepressants.

 

 

 

 

  1. Common side effects when starting any psychiatric medication, especially the SSRIs, are headache, nausea, sweating, dry mouth, sleepiness or insomnia, and diarrhea or constipation. Sometimes it's a coin-toss on the last sets, as you might get to alternate. These are generally transitory effects and pass within a couple weeks. These are incorrectly known as anticholinergic, the term actually applies to a class of meds that effects specific neurotransmitters. A few of them actually do hit your acetylcholine receptors heavily enough to be classified as anticholinergic drugs, but most don't, you just get the exact same side effects, so what the hell. It's like calling someone who breaks into a computer a hacker.
  2.  

  3. Most antidepressants can take up to a month to work. Sure, you get the side effects right away, but you may not feel the positive benefits for a month. Unless the side effects are really adverse, have some patience. Don't give up, but don't keep upping the dosage either, because that just makes it harder to switch meds if you need to. Stay at a relatively low dosage at first. You should know after a month if something is going to work or not.
  4.  

  5. Reuptake poop-out is starting to become common knowledge in the psychiatric community, especially for SSRIs. But any medication that acts as a reuptake inhibitor can work great for weeks, months, even years, then just quit. For most people this is not an issue. If you're taking an SSRI you can just move on to the next one until the poop-out happens again, but if you're taking another class of reuptake inhibitor working on another neurotransmitter, your options are going to be much more limited. While people on SSRIs can rotate them like tires, if norepinephrine or dopamine is the neurotransmitter you need to tweak, you may have to go off-label to some unusual medications.  Poop-out also happens with
  6. TCAs, but I don't know if the same rotation trick works or not.

     

  7. If you do have to switch meds because of either poop-out or adverse effects, or it just wasn't the right neurotransmitter, keep in mind that mileage may vary considerably. Sometimes you won't notice a thing, say if you move between Celexa (citalopram hydrobromide) and either Lexapro (escitalopram oxalate) and Prozac (fluoxetine hydrochloride), just as long as the dosages are in line. But with other meds, especially if you're crossing the boundary of neurotransmitters, you'll run into all sorts of fun as your brain adjusts to the switch. If you do change from a med that works on one neurotransmitter to another, it's best to get completely clean of the first med before starting the next, otherwise you'll risk the side effects of a new med on top of the side effects of discontinuing an old med.
  8.  

  9. Antidepressants are addictive!  Addictive isn't really the right word, you develop an intense physical and psychological dependency without a craving and urge to abuse them (unless you're bipolar, then you may abuse them), but addictive is close enough.  Some are more addictive than others. Effexor (venlafaxine hydrochloride) is the most addictive of the commonly prescribed antidepressants and is the drug everyone hates to have taken if they ever need to stop. The SSRIs as a class are next, with Paxil (paroxetine hydrochloride) being the most addictive of that bunch. Read about SSRI discontinuation syndrome to learn more. SSRIs are some of the most physically addictive drugs in existence. To suddenly stop taking them is to feel so very much worse than you were feeling before you ever considered taking meds. There's a term, "brain shivers." You'll know it if you ever experience it. Mouse and I have kicked opiates and we have kicked SSRIs cold turkey. We'll take the opiate kick. If you're taking an atypical antipsychotic along with Effexor (venlafaxine hydrochloride) or an SSRI, the discontinuation is often not nearly as bad, so if you have some Seroquel (quetiapine) on hand for insomnia, you'll want to take some for your SSRI discontinuation. Not everyone experiences SSRI discontinuation syndrome, and for those who do the effects range from mild to extreme. Not all doctors recognize this as an issue, so that sucks even more. Be sure to read the section about how long it takes for a med to clear out of your system and wait that long to taper down to the next stage in your dosage. And, as Paula writes in her article, invest in a pill splitter.
  10.  

 

 

 

  1. Extreme caution should be used if bipolar disorder is suspected or diagnosed and antidepressants are being considered. Although any antidepressant can trigger a mania, the odds are better it will happen SSRIs, and less likely to happen with meds that work only on dopamine or norepinephrine. Some doctors think that antidepressants should never be used with bipolar, and I used to go along with that until I spent a month in the bipolar 2 part of the spectrum. There are no blanket statements when it comes to psychiatric medications, everyone has to be evaluated individually. I personally think that if an antidepressant is called for, the test for the right neurotransmitter should be done of course. But if you can't get your doctor to sign off on that, try an NRI first, then a dopamine med like Wellbutrin (bupropion hydrochloride) or Mirapex (pramipexole dihydrochloride), and only if they don't do it do you hit the SSRIs.

  2. It's not just the use of antidepressants that can cause mania either.  If you have to stop taking them, that can cause mania as well.  Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

     

  3. Care should also be taken if you're epileptic, you must be cautious when mixing antidepressants and epilepsy. Make sure that your neurologist is consulted before you start taking any antidepressant. You may have to increase your intake of anticonvulsants, which, in turn, make you more depressed, and round and round it goes. The dopamine affecting meds are the worst, and that means Wellbutrin (bupropion hydrochloride) above all others. Glaxo makes it appear that the SR version isn't as bad as the immediate release version when it comes to seizures, but there's something about the way the information is worded in the PI sheet for the SR version when compared to the immediate release version. It just reads like they filtered out anyone who had a hint of seizure disorder, or even a family history of seizure disorder, from the clinical trials. I've read quite a few reports of people who have had no known history of seizure disorders describing symptoms of absence seizures, partial onsets and other petit mal events when taking the maximum dosage of Wellbutrin SR.

  4.  

  5. Booze. I will cover this more in another article. You know the drill, you shouldn't drink when on meds, but come on. Just because I've given up booze doesn't mean I'm going to get all preachy on you. Basically with the newer antidepressants, booze isn't that big a deal. Except for maybe Zoloft (sertraline hydrochloride).  You shouldn't drink as much as you used to, nor as often, especially with Effexor (venlafaxine hydrochloride) and Wellbutrin (bupropion hydrochloride). Details in the article on booze and on the pages for individual meds. But if you're taking only one or two newer antidepressants and you don't have a problem with booze, you can still have a few drinks now and then. Or your glass of wine or bottle of beer, sake or soju with dinner. Cheers! However, if you're mixing in an atypical antipsychotic with an antidepressant, as is getting very popular, you'll have to cut out the booze all together. Alcohol and atypical antipsychotics don't mix.

  6.  

  7. Amino acids are powerful things, at least when what is in the capsule is what is promised on the bottle's label. You never know in the US. Many of them convert to neurotransmitters in your brain, which is why they get sold as antidepressants, amongst other things. So you shouldn't mix l-Tryptophan / 5-HTP / Tryptan with SSRIs, multiple reuptake inhibitors or Remeron. Just don't. Unless your doctor tells you to, of course. That's your doctor and not anyone else. Otherwise you're seriously screwing with your serotonin levels and wildly unpredictable results may occur, including the potentially fatal serotonin syndrome. That's right, you could die from the advice some hippie at Ye Olde Vitamin Shoppe gives you about taking 5-HTP along with your Prozac (fluoxetine hydrochloride). Mixing l-tyrosine and Strattera (atomoxetine HCl) or Edronax (roboxetine) is slightly less risky, but you're still setting yourself up to overdosing on your own neurotransmitter. Unlike serotonin syndrome I can't point you to a handy guide to the symptoms of too much norepinephrine. Another problem is that you may not know how much more in the way of extra neurotransmitters you're going to get. I'll cover them in detail in an article specifically on supplements. As I write above I'm not against them, I take amino acids myself, with the advice and consent of my doctor. I'm just against taking them stupidly.  You should either do amino acid therapy, or antidepressant therapy, but not both.

  8. Not all forms of depression and/or anxiety respond to antidepressants.  Dr. Amen uses anticonvulsants, standard antipsychotics and atypical antipsychotics,  and even lithium to treat different forms of depression, anxiety and depression & anxiety combinations.  Don't be afraid to go off-label!

  9. I'll also be writing an article about antidepressants and kids, even though this is not a site for kids and meds.  For information about kids and meds I direct you to What Meds?.  However there is one and only one antidepressant in the US that has approval for pediatric use and that's Prozac (fluoxetine hydrochloride).  For very good reason - its 9.3 day half-life.  If the kid misses a day or two in being med compliant, it's not that big a deal with Prozac.  With almost any other med, playing hooky with meds for a day or two is really bad news.  It's just way more complicated than that, because diagnosing kids is difficult.  But if an antidepressant is called for and if serotonin is the right neurotransmitter to mess with, Prozac (fluoxetine hydrochloride) is the only med to use.

  10. People are constantly asking me what the equivalents are for different classes of antidepressants.  And it literally is an apples and oranges comparison.  But since apples and oranges are both types of fruits, there are commonalities.  Loren Regier and  Brent Jensen of Queen's University School of Medicine, Kingston Ontario have put together a handy Antidepressant Comparison Chart.  Of course it applies only for meds available in Canada, eh.  But it does cover SSRIs, TCAs, MAOIs, Multiple Reuptake Inhibitors and whatever else they have in the Great White North.

    Thanks to Trusted Minion groovyone for finding these charts for me.

    You'll also want to check Nom de Plum's Summary of Psychotropic Medications for lots of information on the old-school meds like TCAs and MAOIs.

 

 

 

 

The Overlords of the 12 Zernox Galaxies have compelled me through messages in the Sunday Chronicle to beg you for spare change.  So if this site has been of use and/or amusement to you, please see if you could

or visit the Donation Page if PayPal isn't your style.  Or our Mental Mall to make a purchase.  Better yet, if you run a business and want to advertise on Crazy Meds, see our page on ad rates and policies.  I'm all about fiscal transparency, so follow the money for full disclosure of my pitiful finances.

 

Crazy Meds Home  Crazy Meds Talk   About Antidepressants   About SSRIs   About Anticonvulsants / Mood Stabilizers    About Atypical Antipsychotics   About Benzodiazepines   About Stimulants   Finding a Doctor    Sites with More Information     Support Group Sites    About Crazy Meds    Crazy Meds: The Blog

 

Antidepressants in the News

 

Take care, and keep taking your crazy meds!

 

Jerod

If you still have unanswered questions about this or other medications, including which one is, or combination of meds are the best for you, your best bet is to ask on Crazy Meds Talk.  Better yet, if you want to let the world know how they worked out for you and want to help out others in their quest for the correct meds, join the party.
If you 
want to discuss your issues, I suggest checking out one of the various support groups online.  
Otherwise, if you're letting me know about how much you like or hate the site, or  need to let me know about medication effects in private, then just drop a note to jerod23 at gmail dot com  Honestly, I usually don't have a lot of time to answer e-mail these days.  The snide autoresponse message that may or may not hit your mailbox is going to tell you the same thing.
Another problem is that you may not get a response even if I wanted to send you one.  You see, so many dickweeds with malicious intents and too much time on their hands have appropriated the crazymeds.org domain name to use for their spam, viruses and the like.  Subsequently some lazy-ass e-mail protection software authors just go by the domain name, and not the IP address.  So I've been blacklisted because of the actions of others.  Or the software just doesn't like the domain name because of the "crazy" and/or "meds."  Or your question about a particular medication will set off spam flags.  So the e-mail just wouldn't go through regardless.  Sorry.  

 

Dead tree references:

 

 

Healing Anxiety & Depression Daniel G. Amen, M.D.,  and Lisa C. Routh, M.D.  © 2003.  Published by G.P. Putnam's Sons.  Mouse and I were both patients at one of Dr. Amen's clinics.

 

 

 

Instant Psychopharmacology 2nd Edition Ronald J. Diamond M.D.  © 2002. Published by W.W. Norton

 

 

Essential Psychopharmacology Stephen M. Stahl, M.D., Ph. D.  © 2000.   Published by  Cambridge University Press

 

A Primer of Drug Action Robert M. Julien, M.D., Ph. D.  © 2001.  We use the Ninth Edition.  Sometimes that comes up on an Amazon search, usually it doesn't.  Published by  Worth Publishers

 

 

Physicians' Desk Reference Editions 53 & 56 Maria Deutsch & Anu Gupta, Drug Information Specialists, et al.  ©  1999, 2002. Published by Medical Economics Company.

 

The Complete Guide to Psychiatric Drugs Edward Drummond, M.D.  © 2000. Published by John Wiley & Sons, Inc.

Pharmacotherapy for Mood, Anxiety, and Cognitive Disorders Uriel Halbreich, M.D. & Stuart A. Montgomery, M.D. Editors.  © 2000. Published by American Psychiatric Press.

 

 

 

Handbook of Affective Disorders edited by Eugene S. Paykel, M.D. FRCPsych    © 1992.  Published by The Guilford Press.

 

 

Mosby's 2004 Drug Guide David Nissen PharmD, Editor. © 2004.  An imprint of Elsevier.  The edition we're using isn't listed on Amazon.

 

 

End of books used for this article.

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Hey, did you find this page all by itself through Google or some other search engine? Great! But to really appreciate the entire site, you need to start here.

 

 

 

Created Friday, November 7, 2003

Last updated Saturday, May 15, 2010

Copyright © 2003 - 2008 Jerod Poore. All rights reserved.

 

Almost all of the material on this site is copyright © 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 and 2010 Jerod Poore. Except, of course, the PI sheets, those are the property of the drug companies who developed the drugs the sheets are about.  And any documents that are written by other people which may be posted to this site will remain the property of the original authors.  You cannot reproduce this page or any other material on this site outside of the boundaries of fair use copying without the express permission of the copyright holder.  That's usually me, so just ask first.  That means if want to print out a few pages to take to your doctor, therapist, counselor, support group, non-understanding family members or something like that - then that's OK to just do.  Go for it!  Please.  As long as you include this copyright notice and the following disclaimer, I'm cool with it.

All rights reserved. No warranty is expressed or implied in this information. Consult one or more doctors and pharmacists before taking, or changing how you take any neurological and/or psychiatric medication. Your mileage may vary. What happened to us won't necessarily happen to you. Nobody on this site is a doctor, therapist, or a pharmacist. We don't portray them either here or on TV. Only doctors can diagnose and treat an illness. Some doctors tend to get pissed off by patients who know too much about medications, so tread lightly when and where appropriate. Diagnosing yourself from a website is like defending yourself in court, you suddenly have a fool for a doctor. Don't be a cyberchondriac, thinking you have every disease you see a website about, or that you'll get every side effect from every medication. Self-prescribing is just as dangerous.  All information on this site has been obtained through personal experience, the experiences of my friends, the experiences of people reported on online support groups, and from sources that are referenced throughout the site.  Know your sources!  As such the information presented here is not a substitute for real medical advice from your real doctor, just a compliment to it.  No neurologists, psychiatrists, therapists or pharmacists were harmed in the production of this website. All brand names of the drugs listed in this site are the trademarks of the companies listed after them in the pages about the drugs, even though those companies may or may not have been acquired by other companies who may or may not be listed in this site by the time you read this. Always read the PI sheet that comes with your medications and never ever throw them away.  If you didn't get a PI sheet, demand one.  Loudly.  Crazy Meds is not responsible for the content of sites we provide links to.  We like them, or they're paid advertisements, or they're something you should read to make an informed decision about a particular med.  Sometimes they're more than one of those things.  But what's on those sites is their business, not ours.  Very little information about visitors to this site is collected or saved. And from time to time I do look at search terms used to find it in an effort to make the information I present more relevant. Use only as directed. Void where prohibited.

 

"Everything is true, nothing is permitted." - Jerod Poore