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Topamax And Sleep Problems


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#1 deps

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Posted 29 September 2007 - 03:00 AM

I will call it a twightlight sleep even if that isn't what it's called. Last time on Top, I slept great. And I needed that. When I started on it this time, was doing pretty good. Just upped my dose to 75 and am doing this twightlight. My eyes are closed and I'm sleeping, but not really. I would/could hear anything. I'm not at all rested, and horrible dreams when I first lay to sleep. Anyone else with Topamax related sleep problems?
Thank you
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#2 Jerod Poore

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Posted 03 October 2007 - 01:36 PM

deps,

I will call it a twightlight sleep even if that isn't what it's called.


"Twilight sleep" is actually a specific medical term for the combination of benzodiazepines and anesthetics given before a minor surgical procedure so you're slightly out of it during whatever is going on, then don't remember what happened.

It used to be a very popular method for quiet delivery rooms.

Of course a similar thing can happen with other drugs or naturally, but it would require the same things: no pain, no memory.


My eyes are closed and I'm sleeping, but not really. I would/could hear anything. I'm not at all rested, and horrible dreams when I first lay to sleep. Anyone else with Topamax related sleep problems?


It's an anticonvulsant, this is entirely possible. The floor is open for people with similar problems.
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#3 In_Remission_cliff

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Posted 04 October 2007 - 03:06 PM

i cant blame it all on topamax but ive had problems with sleep for many years sleep studies showed no bad side effects from all my meds but between seizures and bipolar i dont think anyone can answer that question they told me everyones different thats why we take all these different meds and different amounts

Edited by cliff, 04 October 2007 - 03:06 PM.


#4 Sasha

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Posted 04 October 2007 - 10:08 PM

What time are you taking your topamax? I've found that I'll have extra trouble sleeping if I take my second dose later than about 4pm.
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#5 elocinintherain

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Posted 04 October 2007 - 10:20 PM

When I was on Topamax, I had no nightmares for the first time ever. I have heard of it causing weird dreams in some people, but odds are, if you are mentally interesting and on a medication, you'll have weird dreams anyways. As for not getting a restful night of sleep, in some people, like myself, topa can be activating,like a stimulant. I found that taking it in the early afternoon, no later than 7pm (when I went to sleep at midnight, so like 5 hours before bed) with a small meal helped me avoid the stimulant at bedtime problem. What dose are you on? You could try splitting it up (with doctor's permission) and taking most of it in the morning. Or even 3 times a day, say at mealtime. Also, the effects of this med seem to be harsher on some people at smaller doses.
And, keep in mind, it's not the drug for everyone, and in some people, topa is like a screaming Diva bashing you over the head with her purse to tell you so. That doesn't sound like it's the case with you, so I'd talk to the doc about dosage and timing.

EDIT: I noticed you are on Cymbalta but discontinuing. How far along in the cessation process are you? I'd attribute the bad dreams to that, though there's no way of knowing for sure. Cymbalta gave me some pretty hellish dreams, like nightmares so bad I'd wake in a panic attack, thrashing everywhere. It's also a drug with a pretty hellish discontinuation process.

Edited by elocinintherain, 04 October 2007 - 10:23 PM.

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Current Daily Meds: 150mcg Synthroid, 25 mg topamax x 3 daily (introduced 1/10/13, titration dosage), 100mg Wellbutrin x 2 daily, .25 to .5 mg clonazapam prn.


#6 deps

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Posted 05 October 2007 - 02:15 AM

Thanks for the replys. Only on 100 mg right now but definitely going up, but we needed to go slow. Was on a 150 mg before when I hasd to stop, but at the 150 mark, was doing pretty nice. Nightmares stopped. Sleep.. so-so. Taking it a little earlier. Will be seeing the pdoc on Thursday, had a whole shit load of blood work done anyway. Want to see if Cymbalta or another reason the cause of ALL the hair loss. Yea peeps was way too much. Had to go get a short haircut to make my hair look a little fuller. When to my friends shop and the two of them did a pretty good job. They did say it was one of the worse cases they had seen and they have seen quite the few in the business.
I really love Top, I have the stups, but just not not much at all, no tingles at all, taste soda fine so we all know it still up up up to go.
Yea, off the Cymbalta, for a couple of weeks. Just when you think you/ve got only one foot left in the hell hole, surprise Drink more water. Don't know if I'm taking enough Omega. I'm taking that Walmart once a day? But I take 2, three times a day. Ahhhhh go figure, we're on crazy meds away

You all have a good one
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#7 rkontos

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Posted 05 October 2007 - 12:44 PM

Deps, omega needs to be at 4000 and it will help with hair. YOu will notice it will slow down. You might add some magnesium to help with sleep. It calms the central nervous system. You might get loose stools at first but your body will adjust. Try 500 to 1000 mg. of the mag. It is very good for sleep. Also b -12 will help again with the brain, central nervous system in general. Adds to the overall calming effect. Omega at 4000 is suppose to help with depression. I had horrible nightmares on cymbalta and they were worse when I was tapering and still had some when I was off of it. It seemed to take a while to get out of my system regardless of its short half life. I have had brain zaps two days in a row, yesterday and today, which I told my neuro today. Anyway, I am at 150 mgs. of topamax and have vivid dreams some nightmares but I have had some very bad news two days ago so I just considered that my issue. I have always had vivid and weird dreams that I put off to my messed up state during the day. Now on cymbalta withdrawal they reached an all-time high. So if you have been off cymbalta a while it may still be causing some of this and topamax maybe causing it. Try the supplements, those I suggested have no known side effects.
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#8 In_Remission_LisaSCA

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Posted 05 October 2007 - 09:13 PM

I agree with the taking of topa just after dinner time. that's worked for me. any later and I start to have sleep issues. so I take it around 7, 7:30 and it's fine. btw, I used to have terrific dreams ( like the kind where i"m frank sinatra's mistress, lol). on topa I don't dream. it's shut down any nightmares, interesting and vivid dreams, etc. I sleep and wake up, period. on the plus side, I no longer have the kind of dreams where I worry about my daughter or something, have those nervous dreams about being chased, etc, but I miss the wacky dreams, the fun ones that make great party stories.

#9 In_Remission_misterbox

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Posted 05 January 2008 - 07:37 PM

i'm curious about taking magnesium and b-12 to help sleep. i am on 300 mg of topomax, i used to take my last 100 mg right before i went to bed, but never noticed anything immediately because with everything else i am taking i usually fall asleep right away, however, i usually only get a few hours of sleep (1- 2 if i am really really lucky) after that i sleep in shifts an hour there a half hour here etc. i've made some changes on my own from reading about topomax elsewhere and the rest of my meds, i started taking my last topo around 7pm and any meds that are activating in the morning. i've been taking 4000 units of omegas 3's & 6's as well. 2000 in the morning and 2000 at night before i go to bed.

i''ve always had strange dreams so that isn't an issue, actually they're pretty entertaining, it's getting a good night sleep to where i feel rested that is the bigger issue. after reading more here i now take my last 100 mg topo before 4pm in the afternoon. so my question is how much b-12 and magnesium would be helpful, and about what time should i be taking it? and when is the best time to take the omegas?
i also suffer from chronic pain so i am on slow release morphine (kadian 60mg x 2 and immediate release morphine 15 mg as needed) i keep the immediate release in the night stand by the bed, so if it is pain waking me up, i will take a hit of the quick stuff, but even that doesn't put me out, it just helps with the pain so i can get some rest. any help would be appreciated. i am afraid my doc is going to just bump up the seroquel, but 50 mg is more than enough for my symptoms, it just isn't helping me with the sleep and i don't feeling like taking so much that i turn into a walking zombie balloon.

#10 In_Remission_generalmeow

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Posted 25 January 2008 - 01:40 AM

I hear ya'll talking about omegas, my hair is falling out also , I'm on 400mg
what are omega, what is the best way to take them? I know it's a supplement but I feel like I'm missing something.
Also I take mine twice daily but I never knew there was a "best time" what have ya'll found to be the best time?

#11 In_Remission_phillip

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Posted 25 January 2008 - 06:11 AM

I hear ya'll talking about omegas, my hair is falling out also , I'm on 400mg
what are omega, what is the best way to take them? I know it's a supplement but I feel like I'm missing something.
Also I take mine twice daily but I never knew there was a "best time" what have ya'll found to be the best time?

The two active ingredients of omega-3 fish oil are EPA (eicosapentaenoic acid) and DHA (docosahexaenoic acid). EPA is considered to be the ingredient with the therapeutic effect, so it is important to buy omega-3 that contains more EPA than DHA. A pilot study of EPA on depressed patients produced a beneficial effect while in another study DHA proved a total dud.

Take vitamins C and E with omega-3 (1.5 to 3.5 grams of omega-3 a day, taken with food). No cod liver oil, as high amounts can lead to hypervitaminosis A. In buying fish oil, make sure you receive a 90 percent concentration (in the past only 30 percent was available.) Be sure it contains more EPA than DHA, and that it has no heavy metal concentrations.

Finally, keep in mind that although omega-3 looks like a promising way to treat depression and bipolar disorder, there are no major clinical trials to guide us. We are barely aware of its putative efficacy, much less its optimal dosage, much less how it actually works on the brain. Accordingly, omega-3 should be considered a complement to medications rather than a replacement.

#12 In_Remission_Gyrfalcon

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Posted 30 January 2008 - 12:13 AM

I sometimes have very vivid and even scary dreams if I take my Topamax too close to when I go to bed--I usually need about an hour to two hours between meds and bed.

Also if if forget and leave the heat up too high, I have strange dreams, but that may be just temperature related.

#13 In_Remission_mac29

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Posted 26 May 2008 - 01:11 PM

My Dr prescribed this to me & told me that it would make me so sleepy I probably wouldnt have to take my Ambien at all anymore - WRONG
It does nothign to make me tired - at all - if anything, it makes it harder to sleep
So I am still taking my ambien to sleep

#14 The Lightning Stalker

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Posted 26 May 2008 - 08:57 PM

While we're on the subject of partial sleep and dreams and stuff, sometimes I partially awake in the middle of the night with bizarre delusions like I'm a football player or have 3 penises, but did you really want to know that?
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#15 Jerod Poore

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Posted 27 May 2008 - 11:12 AM

While we're on the subject of partial sleep and dreams and stuff, sometimes I partially awake in the middle of the night with bizarre delusions like I'm a football player or have 3 penises, but did you really want to know that?


It's not appropriate for a discussion about Topamax, but someone might find it of interest on the Other Conditions board.
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#16 melee

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Posted 28 May 2008 - 02:06 AM

At least now I know why taking it at 10pm caused me not to sleep at all. I had those bizarre twilight dreams, no, nightmares. It almost felt like a hallucination, because I felt awake but my imagination was going a mile a minute.
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I had a brain that felt like pancake batter.....

#17 The Lightning Stalker

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Posted 29 May 2008 - 09:47 PM

Sorry, I shouldn't have written that.
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#18 In_Remission_mac29

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Posted 31 May 2008 - 07:17 AM

I've been taking this for just over a week & this one week has been the worst sleep ever for me- even with my ambien
I am waking up in the middle of hte night sweating, having crazy dreams, and I always am able to just sleep soundly through the night with ambien
So is it the topamax all of a sudden doing this?

#19 Diana

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Posted 31 May 2008 - 08:17 AM

I will call it a twightlight sleep even if that isn't what it's called. Last time on Top, I slept great. And I needed that. When I started on it this time, was doing pretty good. Just upped my dose to 75 and am doing this twightlight. My eyes are closed and I'm sleeping, but not really. I would/could hear anything. I'm not at all rested, and horrible dreams when I first lay to sleep. Anyone else with Topamax related sleep problems?
Thank you


Hi,

I got a "weird feeling" at sleep time when I went up from 15 mg to 25 mg. I cannot really describe it....it was a weird in and out of it not quite in not quite out, very uncomfortable feeling when I was either waking up or going to sleep. Very bad feeling. 15 mg is where I will stay. I take it for binge eating and it works. (Went off Topamax and Lamictal due to a face rash which started on Lamictal and I stopped Lamictal too I have been eating like a fool and especially at night. I have been back on for two day at 15 mg and I hope that it still works well....)
Diana
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#20 Glimpse

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Posted 31 May 2008 - 08:50 AM

I get really weird dreams from Topamax.

In the dream I keep waking up in the same spot and then try to walk away or do something and BAM I'm waking back up in the same spot. Over and over and over. I can remember at least a dozen "waking up" periods in these dreams. I'm always trying to get away from where I am. They seem so realistic that when I wake up I feel like I havent slept at all and may be leading a double life.
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It is entirely possible that the post you just read, while it may look simple, actually took me a long time to compose. You can usually find me sitting in my living room, on my laptop, with more than 10 tabs open in my internet browser and I can promise that one of them is always dictionary.reference.com. And no one walking through the room is safe from me unexpectedly asking them how they would spell a word.

Forget that I have a high school diploma. Never mind that I earned a 3.5 GPA in college English Composition I, II, & III. It doesn't matter that I have over 60 credit hours from one of the largest community colleges in America.

I take Topamax. Need I say more?


#21 cherries

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 02:48 PM

I was on lamictil but got uncontrollable weeping from it some raw rashes, and eye pain. the doc started on topmax 6 days ago.,
so the first few days have been bad, I'm hot and felt sweaty and overheated. I feel agitated, and very paranoid. last night i took and extra 25 mg and got very agitated to the point of rage and had to take something to chill out. Is this just the lack of good control of topamax or is this a bad omen? It is starting to look grim on these meds. I need a mood stabilizer . I've taken topamax before with some success. It just made me a zombie. I do have temporal lobe problems,ie I have always had what I recently learned are called jama Vus. I thought i had bouts of amnesia all my life.

Edited by bodhicitta, 03 June 2008 - 03:03 PM.

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#22 cherries

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Posted 04 June 2008 - 01:25 PM

i wanted to btt this today. I am on week two, day 1. I just began the 25mg am and will take 25 mg pm . I am sick this am, with nausea. Last night i had some old problems with TD, some mouth blowing. Can Topamax cause this? or aggravate this? I do take seroquel but have been on it for some time and my doc says that seoquel has actually been used for this problem.
Can someone tell me what at this point would be a valid thing to be concerned about? I want this drug to work, i need a mood stabilizer.
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#23 quiet storm

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Posted 04 June 2008 - 03:41 PM

While we're on the subject of partial sleep and dreams and stuff, sometimes I partially awake in the middle of the night with bizarre delusions like I'm a football player or have 3 penises, but did you really want to know that?


It's not appropriate for a discussion about Topamax, but someone might find it of interest on the Other Conditions board.



LOL, I just spit out some of my water. I really dont want to talk about it in the other conditions board either. TMI
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Next time you think no one cares, try missing a car payment.

#24 Jerod Poore

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Posted 04 June 2008 - 08:24 PM

i wanted to btt this today. I am on week two, day 1. I just began the 25mg am and will take 25 mg pm . I am sick this am, with nausea. Last night i had some old problems with TD, some mouth blowing. Can Topamax cause this? or aggravate this?


I can't find any report of Topamax causing or aggrevating TD. Nausea, sure, but not TD.

I do take seroquel but have been on it for some time and my doc says that seoquel has actually been used for this problem.


Although both Seroquel and Zyprexa are used to treat TD, both can cause TD.

Can someone tell me what at this point would be a valid thing to be concerned about? I want this drug to work, i need a mood stabilizer.


TD is always something to be concerned about. Some interaction between Topamax and Seroquel could be happening. Few things surprise me when it comes to anticonvulsants.
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Current meds: lamotrigine 300mg, topiramate 325mg, buspirone 60mg, protriptyline 60mg, EPA 600mg, methylphenidate 5-10mg, lorazepam 1mg PRN
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#25 cherries

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 01:52 PM

I'm still here and still on topamax. Its Sunday, deep into week 2. I have not had any further active TD so maybe it will not return. I've began to see hair falling out , but expected some of that. Some wonderful appetite suppression - thank you .
TD has been a problem for me for several years now. I took stelazine - a tiny 1 mg dose for many years- many- and it worked wonderfully. I was so stable. Then one day I began mouth blowing and got a tremor on my right cheek when I smiled. It remains even after I stopped the stelazine. My neuro had me stop the stelazine and did an MRI to r/o a tumor in the face and when there was none , well, I just had TD and could not longer take Stelazine. I taking seroquel 25 mg b/c I do need a bit of an anti psychotic b/c - well, I'm a tiny bit nuts, but I have to be careful. I still have TD. Some things seem to activate it. The facial tremor is always present- activated by smiling in a certain way. The mouth blowing -not alwys present-set off by goodness knows what.
I am seeing some cognitive effects ( from the topa) but nothing like the first time I took it. I think I was only taking 50 mg total, top dose and could not remember some family's members names.
When I read the section on Temporal lobe problems I wondered why no one one ever suggested this. I have always had jamais vu. Since I was a teenager I have gotten lost driving. I could be 1 block from my home and not know where I was. I was once working somewhere that had a U shaped hall. I would go around the U and I was lost. I did not know where I was at. I have had experiences like this my entire life.
I actually had an experience once where the typewriter keyboard ( at college ) was reversed in my mind- ie, my hands lay on the key pad normally but as I typed in my mind my right hand was my left and vice versa. it was quite bizarre and I did not realize it until I had typed an entire paper. Totally intelligible paper. I just sat and cried and had to force my mind to put my hands in the right pace again.
So anyway, the Topamax seem to be more energizing than relaxing to me. I feel sort of like manics do with antidepressants, knocked out but wired.
maybe it is dose related. I'm not stoping.
I'm pretty paranoid though.

Edited by bodhicitta, 13 June 2008 - 02:01 PM.

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#26 dymphna

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 08:04 PM

I'm pretty paranoid though.


My seizures make me paranoid.

My Topamax makes me wired. And paranoid.

My Topamax stops my seizures.

Eh.

Fuck it.

I eat Klonopin.

:mad:


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#27 roxyhead

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  • Current Meds:Keppra, Dexedrine, indomethacin, Topamax
  • Location:Ontario, Canada

Posted 08 June 2008 - 10:27 PM

I just found the stash of 2mg Klonopin that I'd been seriously wondering if I'd been imagining...it'd been hiding in a nondescript OTC bottle mixed with Advil and Aleve and Excedrin...who would have ever thought to look for it *there*???

I don't think it's the Topamax making me dream that I was at Paris Hilton's birthday party and told her that I wasn't there because I liked here, only because Lindsay Lohan's mother made good shrimp...weird, but certainly not abnormally so. On the second week of 25mg, will go up to 50 in a few days. Dropped the Keppra last week but picked it back up again today because some funny stuff (of the "Dementor's Kiss" variety - my most common kind, I really have no better term for it, but Keppra usually scares them away pretty good) was trying to poke through...certainly not as intense as on no meds, but you could feel it was trying. No weird sleep effects yet, doesn't make me sleepy, don't think I'm stupid yet...just the tingling in my hands when I touch stuff, and the pop tasting like ass for a second until the bubbles go off. Maybe my mom should take this. She wants to lose weight and hates bubbles in pop! ;-)
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I'm not new, I just post less often than the board changes servers. I guess I'm a "C and E" of these boards, I only show up for med changes. So sue me.

Even *I* just call them brain cooties...
(ADHD inattentive, evil headaches NOS (Local marching band and jackhammer squadron, with a bit of Chinese opera thrown in), occasional SAD, suspected simple partial seizures of a suspected temporal lobe variety, ABD IBS)

Asperger's Control Group - MMR vaccine before 1yr, was normal til about 2. Put that in your pipe and smoke it, vax people. Second shot at 10 and didn't get worse.

Ex-meds: Amitriptyline, Maxalt, Relpax, Ritalin/SR, clonazepam, Flexeril, Risperdal, Celexa, Wellbutrin, Effexor, and a whole load of non-psych/headache stuff. Still use Valium and Ativan PRN, trying metoclopramide/aspirin now, too. May try clonidine again.

Cocktail of the day: "I'm With Stupid" - Keppra + Topamax (sorry, not available in liquid, but the taste alone would probably kill you...splitting both pills is bad enough!)


#28 cherries

cherries

    DIY Trepanist

  • Members
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  • 122 posts
  • Diagnoses:some flavor of craziness

Posted 11 June 2008 - 08:28 PM

bye bye topamax. I'm way paranoid , seeing conspiracy everywhere. something is definitely wrong.
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"Well, I take this medicine as prescribed
It don't matter if I get a little tired
I'll sleep when I'm dead"

Warren Zevon

#29 roxyhead

roxyhead

    DIY Trepanist

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 61 posts
  • Diagnoses:Brain Cooties NOS, cluster headaches
  • Current Meds:Keppra, Dexedrine, indomethacin, Topamax
  • Location:Ontario, Canada

Posted 11 June 2008 - 11:45 PM

bye bye topamax. I'm way paranoid , seeing conspiracy everywhere. something is definitely wrong.


It's not paranoia if they really *are* out to get you... <--her employer. Something is definitely wrong, but it's not on my end. Also not sure why the pharmacist is saying they can't do the refill early with the changed dosage reason code for the insurance, since if such a thing didn't exist, why would the list of them have been taped to the wall by the computer in another pharmacy? Along with lost meds, vacation supply, etc.? Did I switch universes again?

Two weeks and my hands are still tingling. I do hope it goes away soon. I think perhaps the dreams are a little more vivid and strange than usual, but for all I know it could just be normal variation in what I remember. Get to start on 50mg tomorrow anyways, see what happens then, will have to let the doctor know next time that if he'd like me to up the dosage between visits, he'll have to write for an amount that'll let me do it.
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I'm not new, I just post less often than the board changes servers. I guess I'm a "C and E" of these boards, I only show up for med changes. So sue me.

Even *I* just call them brain cooties...
(ADHD inattentive, evil headaches NOS (Local marching band and jackhammer squadron, with a bit of Chinese opera thrown in), occasional SAD, suspected simple partial seizures of a suspected temporal lobe variety, ABD IBS)

Asperger's Control Group - MMR vaccine before 1yr, was normal til about 2. Put that in your pipe and smoke it, vax people. Second shot at 10 and didn't get worse.

Ex-meds: Amitriptyline, Maxalt, Relpax, Ritalin/SR, clonazepam, Flexeril, Risperdal, Celexa, Wellbutrin, Effexor, and a whole load of non-psych/headache stuff. Still use Valium and Ativan PRN, trying metoclopramide/aspirin now, too. May try clonidine again.

Cocktail of the day: "I'm With Stupid" - Keppra + Topamax (sorry, not available in liquid, but the taste alone would probably kill you...splitting both pills is bad enough!)


#30 Webbydeb

Webbydeb

    DIY Trepanist

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 55 posts
  • Diagnoses:Bipolar 1, PTSD, Panic Disorder,"Soft Psychosis" , emphysema, hep C, degenerative disc disease.
  • Current Meds:Lithium, Zoloft, Klonopin, Omeprazole, oxygen 24/7, various inhalers
  • Location:Denver, CO

Posted 14 August 2008 - 10:20 PM

I take 100mg topa and my 900mg lithium at 11:00 pm. I'm most of the time, out like a light by midnight. Occassionally I get the 'restless leg' thing, then I take my ambien.

I don't have dreams anymore.

I do have the tingles. Anything carbonated tastes like someone's thrown pepper in my mouth (yuck) and the appetite is completely gone. I also have this continuous back taste in my mouth of citrus. I think it's coming from my fillings.

My pdoc will be working the topa up soon to 150, and maybe higher. I've gone through a couple of manic episodes since I've started on medication. My guess is she'll be upping the lithium as well.
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Debora
Currently on: lithium 900mg, zoloft , klonopin and ambien (as needed), as well as omeprazole for GERD and various inhalers for my emphysema.
Previously on: Lexapro, Wellbutrin, Topamax, abilify, seroquel
As teenager in the 1970s: mellaril, ritalin


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