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Famous People Are Crazy Too!


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#31 Silver

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Posted 03 October 2007 - 05:59 PM

Chris McCandless, in Into The Wild. (Real life, but in a movie, so was famous, now semi-fictional.)

I read the book the week it came out and thought schizoaffective/bipolar type. Again. And again. And again.

It reminded me so much of some family members and people I know that I can't make myself see the movie. I wanted to just choke him while reading the book. Major literary transference. I'm strongly implored to not reread the book while my husband is home, because I was frothing at the mouth.

As I recall, Krakauer never makes reference to the possibility of crazy, and I kind of respect that. No one ever directly says, "Maybe Chris was this kinda crazy." It's never there as an excuse... but it's never there as an explanation, which baffles me. Crazy is part of who you are, and it factors in to what you do. It's not all of who you are... but it's part. I'm glad it isn't seized on as the sole guiding force of his incredibly fucked up decision making process in ITW. There are other conflicts that the book explores instead. It's valuable.

But the whole sad sick story makes a lot more sense if you put the schizoaffective disorder in there. Oh, does it ever.

All behavior exists for a reason.
This is engraved on my forehead (you'll know me if you see me.)
If the behavior doesn't make sense, you don't know the reason.

A lot of his behavior makes no sense... if you're not crazy.
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#32 sorrel

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Posted 03 October 2007 - 06:12 PM

Chris McCandless, in Into The Wild. (Real life, but in a movie, so was famous, now semi-fictional.)



So I'm not the only one thinking this!
I was mulling over starting a thread on this in the "Books" section. Not sure I'd categorize Chris McCandless as a famous person, but hey, whatever.

I read the book a few years ago, during a period of time when I was pretty unbalanced myself, and I found it an extremely disturbing book. It really bothered me a lot, I'm not sure why, and I'm sure it wouldn't now. I was undiagnosed at the time so didn't "diagnose" him with anything. But now with all the hype about the movie coming out, I remembered the book and thought, "He was bipolar! Clearly!" In fact just last week I went to the library intending to get the book and re-read it, with all my newfound perspective on psychiatric illness -- but all 5 of the copies at the library were out.

I was then reading reviews of the movie, and reviews of the book on Amazon, and everyone likes to paint him as some kind of wonderful spiritual pilgrim, following his dreams and sticking to his ideals, etc etc etc. Apparently no one else sees the mental illness angle. Come on people, the guy was crazy. What part of "grandiose delusion" don't you understand?
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#33 Silver

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Posted 03 October 2007 - 06:53 PM

Grandiose, and there was a strong narcissistic quality there even when he was settled down... Hard to tease those two apart, though.

I was pretty mentally stable when I read the book. The original story had rec'd a lot of coverage (unsympathetic) in the Northwest, and I thought "bipolar" from the first stories, and it took the book to get to schizoaffective...

Follow your dreams... I'm the Supertramp... oh, get over yourself. The book just hit every button I had related to the pure thoughtlessness and inconsideration of mania, every unlithiated family member who'd ever emptied out someone's bank account or wandered off on some similar BS "quest" to "find themselves" with no forethought and then required bailing out from South American jail, and the general assholery and stupidity I've seen over the years as a result of youthful cockiness plus manic depressive illness plus indulgence.
And, ahem, my own manic thoughtlessness and inconsideration. Uncomfortable reminders.

I don't know if it was Krakauer's own projective identification (my guess), or his desire to not have McCandless simply pigeonholed into a "crazy" stereotype box, or the avoidance of stigma on behalf of the family, or what. He's an astute observer and an exceptional writer. It crossed his mind, there is no doubt. But it's just not really in there.
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#34 Stacia

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Posted 03 October 2007 - 10:56 PM

I saw a short "documentary" on Chris McCandless's story some years ago. It probably was some pseudo-news show, but can't recall. Throughout, they portrayed him as a young man on a personal journey to find himself. It was bizarre in that there wasn't much rational about the choices he made. Only someone with serious crazy going on would think they can go from living in suburbia to walking into the Alaskan outback with a shotgun, books on edible plants, and some rice... and survive thru the summary, never mind the winter. Naivety doesn't run that deep. Idealism doesn't go that far. Obviously, the 'storyline' and subject matter were incongruous enough for me to remember.

The other story this reminds me of is the guy who went to live with the bears. Can't remember his name. There's a good documentary on him, most of which is his own footage. Again, MI is alluded, but not stated. If Seroquel wasn't kicking so hard right now, I'd say more.

I think it's great that these people's lives are not reduced to mental illness, and that mental illness is not given as the the sole explanation for their behavior. On the other hand, it'd be very nice for it to be recognized since as Silver pointed out, it is part of the person. Without it, I feel that part of the person is being denied.
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#35 Stacia

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Posted 03 October 2007 - 10:58 PM

Another guy I always wondered about: Jeff Buckley. Great guitarist. I honestly don't know much about his personal life. That he was an alcoholic? Drowned in the Mississippi River? I may be uninformed, maybe other people here know.


That whole Buckley family story is a disaster. Jeff's dad Tim (who I am more familiar) overdosed and died about thirty years ago. I think Jeff's was an o.d./suicide/drowning affair.

Too many musicians to list. I know Thelonius Monk and Charles Mingus were bipolar. I'm a jazz nut if you haven't caught it.
Albert Ayler's story was definitely a strange psychotic suicide.

Jook

Even on a short list of crazy musicians, Roger Waters deserves mention.
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#36 dymphna

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Posted 05 October 2007 - 10:37 AM

Even on a short list of crazy musicians, Roger Waters deserves mention.


Ahem. What about Syd Barrett? The Madcap Laughs started it all.


d
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#37 Silver

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Posted 05 October 2007 - 12:06 PM

I saw a short "documentary" on Chris McCandless's story some years ago. It probably was some pseudo-news show, but can't recall. Throughout, they portrayed him as a young man on a personal journey to find himself. It was bizarre in that there wasn't much rational about the choices he made. Only someone with serious crazy going on would think they can go from living in suburbia to walking into the Alaskan outback with a shotgun, books on edible plants, and some rice... and survive thru the summary, never mind the winter. Naivety doesn't run that deep. Idealism doesn't go that far. Obviously, the 'storyline' and subject matter were incongruous enough for me to remember.

The other story this reminds me of is the guy who went to live with the bears. Can't remember his name. There's a good documentary on him, most of which is his own footage. Again, MI is alluded, but not stated. If Seroquel wasn't kicking so hard right now, I'd say more.


That would be Timothy Treadwell.
He sets off a whole different array of buttons. (Buttons! I got buttons galore!)
McCandless - crazy, thoughtless, punk-ass kid.
Treadwell - narcissistic, scheming and organized, knew exactly who and what he was risking and took someone down with him.
Seems more narcissistic PD than manic... also, perhaps, living in that area where NPD and antisocial PD overlap on the big Venn diagram.
Grizzly Man was the movie. Werner Herzog was the director.
And the denouement, in which Treadwell and his girlfriend are eaten by the bears... That strikes me still as a murder-suicide by Treadwell, using bears as the instrument, rather than a tragic misfortune. Herzog does not play the audio track of the videocam that was running, probably a good idea. The people who investigated the scene, in interviews afterwards, are still pretty incoherent with anger about the whole thing.

Edited by Silver, 05 October 2007 - 12:07 PM.

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#38 Stacia

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Posted 05 October 2007 - 01:18 PM

That would be Timothy Treadwell.
He sets off a whole different array of buttons. (Buttons! I got buttons galore!)
McCandless - crazy, thoughtless, punk-ass kid.
Treadwell - narcissistic, scheming and organized, knew exactly who and what he was risking and took someone down with him.
Seems more narcissistic PD than manic... also, perhaps, living in that area where NPD and antisocial PD overlap on the big Venn diagram.
Grizzly Man was the movie. Werner Herzog was the director.
And the denouement, in which Treadwell and his girlfriend are eaten by the bears... That strikes me still as a murder-suicide by Treadwell, using bears as the instrument, rather than a tragic misfortune. Herzog does not play the audio track of the videocam that was running, probably a good idea. The people who investigated the scene, in interviews afterwards, are still pretty incoherent with anger about the whole thing.

Treadwell, yeh, that's it. Thanks. Mania definitely was not his problem; more like extreme social phobia and personality disorders. I didn't jump to antisocial because his attachment to the bears seemed like misplaced ordinary attachment to people. I'd picture an antisocial being more about killing the bears or some type of cruelty. However, .... My biggest impression of him was that someone really twisted his head when he was young. His problems are usually made by abuse and not a biological condition. That part's tragic regardless of how the venture ended. I walked away split on whether it was tragedy due to arrogance, murder-suicide, or possibly murder gone wrong. He didn't strike me as someone equipped to handle ordinary disputes, and it wasn't a local where his gf could have simply left. His arrogance on the bears could have made him think that they'd eat her but not him.

Edited by Anastacia, 05 October 2007 - 01:20 PM.

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#39 Rayjean

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Posted 06 October 2007 - 01:13 PM

Speaking of famous people, did anyone see Patty Duke on Oprah's special on bipolar this week?
All in all, I thought the show was ok. I guess I was just hoping for more details to be presented.
I think there might have been a show about this in the previous week that I missed so maybe it had more info in it. Even though I guess Patty Duke was supposed to illustrate someone that had success in dealing with the disease, I'd like them to show an average person who has managed pretty well...think it would give people hope. Personally, the guy they showed on TV and the comments by his family/mother didn't give me much hope at all. I felt bad for him and would like to tote him to some different doctors. JMO.
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#40 Bipolar Bear

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Posted 06 October 2007 - 01:19 PM

This week's bipolar episode sucked ass compared to last week's. Last week they did a terrific show with a few "famous" people (one soap star, one lady I don't know anything about) and they did an AWESOME job of stressing the "Bipolar recipe for success":

1. Take your meds, even when you think you don't need them. ESPECIALLY when you think you don't need them.
2. Don't get addicted to your mania, because it is destructive.
3. Do the work to stay healthy.
4. Go to therapy.

This was repeated, over and over, for an entire hour. It was really great.

This week's episode was much more support group ish. (Although I did love Sinead.) Personally, I was a little confused by the guy on there that was supposed to be bipolar. I was a little distracted while watching it, but he seemed much more BPD or other personality disorder instead of bipolar. I thought he was a fairly poor choice to put on the show, but hey, what do I know?
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#41 Jerod Poore

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 03:51 PM

I was a little distracted while watching it, but he seemed much more BPD or other personality disorder instead of bipolar. I thought he was a fairly poor choice to put on the show, but hey, what do I know?


Let's see, Oprah was taken in by that Million Little Pieces guy and there's her million-year-long engagement to some jerk who lands her on the tabloid covers who may or may not be the reason she yo-yo diets.

Perhaps Oprah is the kind of person easily targeted by people with personality disorders?
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#42 Stacia

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Posted 08 October 2007 - 06:30 PM

Since I was about to do an off-topic analogy elsewhere... an oldie

Star Trek:
Kirk - narcissistic
Spock - autistic
Scotty - alcoholic/depressive
Bones - too serious, probably impotent

I want a port replicator!
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#43 Jerod Poore

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Posted 10 October 2007 - 12:57 PM

Since I was about to do an off-topic analogy elsewhere... an oldie

Star Trek:
Kirk - narcissistic
Spock - autistic
Scotty - alcoholic/depressive
Bones - too serious, probably impotent


Whoever put that together was no true fan! Well, OK, no true fan of psychology.

While I agree with the assessment regarding Kirk, and applaud the all-encompassing "autistic" designation for Spock, the other two are off the mark.

Scotty is obviously bipolar. He's grandiose as often as morose, has a lot of war stories, and far too much affection for machinery.

Bones isn't impotent, more like sexually frustrated. One would think that in the 23rd century a masochist would have partners, but nooooooooo. While only alluded to in some episodes, Bones finally gets off in For the World Is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky and especially in The Empath.
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#44 Stacia

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Posted 10 October 2007 - 04:51 PM

Haha. Okay, Scotty's biplar. I just never got beyond the the drinks A LOT. Hmmm, I read Bones as frustrated, so gave him a possible reason for not getting any. Anxiety disorder, yeh, I think you're right about the eyes. That could also be tied in with not getting any.

What about Sulu? (spelled?)
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#45 Silver

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Posted 10 October 2007 - 04:54 PM

Haha. Okay, Scotty's biplar. I just never got beyond the the drinks A LOT.

Yes, this is a common problem with dual diagnosis patients. Don't feel bad. A lot of clinicians make the exact same mistake.

Edited by Silver, 10 October 2007 - 04:54 PM.

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#46 In_Remission_Jaygee

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 04:47 PM

Past posts have talked about Scotty's war stories and drinking, how about PTSD or is that a bit too classic (as in shell shock).

But going back to real people, you hear a lot about Winston Churchill having depression which he called the Black Dog (which is the name of an institute in Australia). Treatment back then must have been, well I can only imagine, rudimentary and probably wrong and he was able to continue to work and make major decisions.

#47 Jerod Poore

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 05:09 PM

But going back to real people, you hear a lot about Winston Churchill having depression which he called the Black Dog (which is the name of an institute in Australia). Treatment back then must have been, well I can only imagine, rudimentary and probably wrong and he was able to continue to work and make major decisions.


There's a reason why the largest size of commercial cigars on the market are designated "Churchill." Sir Winston smoked around 10 a day.
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#48 CER

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 03:29 PM

Speaking of Winston Churchill...

1946 --

Bessie Braddock: "Winston, you're drunk!"
Churchill: "Bessie, you're ugly. But tomorrow I shall be sober and you shall still be ugly."
:mad:


How about:

Robert Downey Jr.

Now isn't he the poster boy for self-medication!
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#49 starhawk1

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Posted 12 April 2008 - 10:21 AM

Buzz Aldrin, astronaut
Lionel Aldridge
Hans Christian Andersen
Ned Beatty
Robert Boorstin, assistant to Pres. Clinton,
Arthur Benson, writer
William Blake (1757-1827), poet
Ralph Blakelock, artist
Napoleon Bonaparte
Tadeusz Borowski
Art Buchwald
Tim Burton, movie director
Drew Carey, actor
Jim Carrey, actor
Dick Cavett
C.E. Chaffin, writer, poet
Agatha Christie
Winston Churchill
John Clare, poet
Rosemary Clooney
Francis Ford Coppola
Patricia Cornwell, writer
Richard Dadd
John Daly
John Davidson
Edward Dayes
Ray Davies
Emily Dickinson
Kitty Dukakis
Patty Duke
Thomas Eagleton
T S Eliot
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Robert Evans
Carrie Fisher
Edward FitzGerald




Famous People With Bipolar Disorder
Robert Frost
F Scott Fitzgerald
Larry Flynt
Connie Francis, actor, musician
Sigmund Freud, physician
Cary Grant, actor
Kaye Gibbons, writer
Shecky Greene, comedian, actor
Linda Hamilton, actor
Kristin Hersh, musician
Victor Hugo, Poet
Alfred Lord Tennyson
Jack London, author
Robert Lowell, poet
Marilyn Monroe, actress
Mozart, composer
Jay Marvin, radio personality, writer
Kevin McDonald, comedian, actor
Kristy McNichol, actor
Dimitri Mihalas, scientist
Kate Millett, writer, artist
Spike Milligan, comic actor, writer
John Mulheren, financier (U.S.)
Robert Munsch, writer
Ilie Nastase, athlete (tennis), politician
Isaac Newton, scientist
Margo Orum, writer
Nicola Pagett, actor
J C Penney
Plato, philosopher, according to Aristotle
Edgar Allen Poe, author
Jimmie Piersall, athlete, sports announcer
Charley Pride, musician
Mac Rebennack (Dr. John), musician
Jeannie C. Riley, musician
Phil Graham, owner, Washington Post
Graham Greene, writer


Peter Gregg, team owner, race car driver
Abbie Hoffman, writer, political activist
Lynn Rivers, U.S. Congress
Francesco Scavullo, artist, photographer
Lori Schiller, writer, educator
Frances Sherwood, writer
Scott Simmie, writer, journalist
Alonzo Spellman, athlete (football)
Muffin Spencer-Devlin, athlete (pro golf)
Gordon Sumner (Sting), musician, composer
St Francis
St John
St Theresa
Rod Steiger, film maker
Robert Louis Stevenson
Liz Taylor, actor
J.M.W. Turner
Mark Twain, author
Alfred, Lord Tennyson, poet
Ted Turner, entrepreneur, media giant
Jean-Claude Van Damme, athlete, actor
Vincent van Gogh
Mark Vonnegut, doctor, writer
Sol Wachtler, judge, writer
Tom Waits, musician, composer
Walt Whitman, poet
Tennessee Williams, author
Brian Wilson, musician (Beach Boys), composer
Jonathan Winters, comedian, actor, writer, artist
Luther Wright, athlete (basketball)
Margot Kidder, actor
Robert E Lee, soldier
Bill Liechtenstein, producer (TV & radio)
Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865), US President
Daniel Johnston, musician
Samuel Johnson, poet
Burgess Meredith, 1908-1997, actor, director
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#50 Sasha

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Posted 12 April 2008 - 11:30 AM

I don't see Britney Spears anywhere on that list! How could you leave out Britney?
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#51 Artemisia

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Posted 12 April 2008 - 02:49 PM

Wow, I can't believe that Buzz Aldrin was "crazy" and they still let him be an astronaut... Was he hiding it during his active career? Was he diagnosed later?
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#52 maria219

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 06:54 PM

Well, it's supposedly a list of people with bipolar disorder (not people with any psychiatric problem ...) but I am sure it's not the most accurate thing in the world. And substance abuse and mood disorders are often comorbid as we all know.

As for Van Gogh, there are a lot of theories about him. One theory is that he actually had acute intermittant porphyria, a metabolic disease with a cyclical pattern that includes psychiatric symptoms. In fact there's a faction of people who vigorously promote the AIP theory and get upset if it's suggested that he had bipolar disorder, because ya know, a (insert horrified gasp here) mental illness would be a stain on his memory, while if it's a physical illness, it's okay.



But I have porphyria, and porphyrins are incredibly unstable molecules that can, when they build up (called an attack) totally wipe out your brain chemistry for a while. No fun.
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#53 snapdragon928

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 09:11 PM

What about all the fictional characters on Criminal Minds? It was alluded to that the young one with the brilliant mind, is autistic. A serial killer gave them all a psych profile on the phone on one of the shows. Was quite interesting. I say aspergers, but you have to keep in mind the emotional abuse he got as a child.
i always thought Bones was a little autistic too. Another show where a psych profile would be good.
I watch too much tv, I guess.
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#54 Deep Sea Philosopher

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Posted 18 May 2011 - 03:10 PM

What about all the fictional characters on Criminal Minds? It was alluded to that the young one with the brilliant mind, is autistic.


In my opinion, they allude more to the Schiz Spectrum than the Autism Spectrum, especially with his mother being hospitalized long-term for Schiz. I don't really see any symptoms portrayed on the show of Autism. Possible Aspergers, but you cannot be diagnosed with Schiz and Aspergers; it is one or the other. Already having a Schiz Spectrum Disorder is an exclusion for Aspergers. I honestly don't think that he would meet the full criteria for either Spectrum. It is somewhat like House in which part of the suspense involves wondering if he is Mentally Interesting, and if so, what DSM category would he fit in.


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#55 snapdragon928

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 08:33 PM

I say that because the serial killer said autistic and he helped in a case with an autistic child. I was leaning towards aspergers. I don't see any schiz symptoms, but most of what I have seen are reruns. I know his mom was MI. Maybe he is just a super smart guy who talks real fast and he uses that as an escape.. He is my favorite character. I think just a tad mentally interesting for most if not all of the characters. Garcia is one of my favorite characters too. She's just eccentric and I love that.
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#56 drewinthebu

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 09:06 PM

Two words: Anne Sexton.
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#57 Rockie

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 11:45 AM

John Keats (poet), Sylvia Plath (poet), Lord Byron (poet), Ian Curtis - Joy Division (musician), Dave Gahan - Depeche Mode (musician), Stuart Adamson - Big Country (musician), Michael Hutchins - INXS (musician), Joni Mitchell (musician).
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#58 VAL

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 06:43 PM

Lincoln wrote extensively about his depression but I've never heard any suggestion that he had mania.

In any case, these diagnosis of famous people centuries ago are really annoying. We don't even attempt to diagnose here where we're communicating with the person.

There is no chance in hell that Buzz Aldrin was bipolar and he only described himself as suffering from depression and alcoholism after his time in the space program.

Now, it's fun to diagnose fake people...I'm all for that and for discussing what records we have that describe this or that behavior of a actual famous person and conjecture, but we don't honestly know a damn thing about the mental status of many of the people on these lists.
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#59 Rockie

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 08:45 PM

Lincoln wrote extensively about his depression but I've never heard any suggestion that he had mania.

Here's a suggestion that he was bipolar.

In any case, these diagnosis of famous people centuries ago are really annoying.

That's your opinion and I respect it. I'd think that the number of reads and replies to this topic would suggest otherwise.

We don't even attempt to diagnose here where we're communicating with the person.

True because few (if any) of us are qualified to do so, especially via an online discussion forum. Occasionally we do suggest being tested for various disorders when there seems to be valid evidence in favor.

There is no chance in hell that Buzz Aldrin was bipolar and he only described himself as suffering from depression and alcoholism after his time in the space program.

I'll accept that the list was probably wrong about Buzz being diagnosed as bipolar, but I don't agree with the "no chance in hell". He has/had depression. He was also an astronaut, which, almost by definition, means he was a very high functioning individual.

...but we don't honestly know a damn thing about the mental status of many of the people on these lists.

Some academics and scholars would disagree. There's even a term for it: retrodiagnosis. We also don't know for a fact that the Egyptian pyramids weren't built by aliens (they were actually built by a Goa'uld named Ra), but we do use the information available to us and form a hypothesis...

I think the whole point of the topic was to try to 1) make people feel that they're not alone in their struggles with MI, 2) let people know that it's possible to accomplish extraordinary things despite having MI, and 3) just have some fun.

Edited by Rockie, 09 October 2011 - 08:52 PM.

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#60 VAL

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 12:06 AM

Lincoln wrote extensively about his depression but I've never heard any suggestion that he had mania.

Here's a suggestion that he was bipolar.


Far be it from me to argue with a nobody on answer.com. Pressured speech because he told stories? He could be gloomy and joyous..well yes, he must be bipolar then.

In any case, these diagnosis of famous people centuries ago are really annoying.

That's your opinion and I respect it. I'd think that the number of reads and replies to this topic would suggest otherwise.


I guess I should have specified that I meant annoying to me...thought that was obvious though.

There is no chance in hell that Buzz Aldrin was bipolar and he only described himself as suffering from depression and alcoholism after his time in the space program.

I'll accept that the list was probably wrong about Buzz being diagnosed as bipolar, but I don't agree with the "no chance in hell". He has/had depression. He was also an astronaut, which, almost by definition, means he was a very high functioning individual.


I said he had depression and he was an alcoholic and he described that as occurring after the space program. Since when does being high functioning equate with bipolar? I know there is a school of thought that perhaps some people are naturally slightly hypomanic all the time and that's why they're high functioning but I'm not of the opinion that a person who achieves a great deal in life should be looked upon as having some sort of pathology.

As far as being bipolar or suffering serious depression while in the space program...I stand by no chance in hell. By the time those men went into space they were probably the most tested and observed human beings on the planet.

.but we don't honestly know a damn thing about the mental status of many of the people on these lists.

Some academics and scholars would disagree. There's even a term for it: retrodiagnosis. We also don't know for a fact that the Egyptian pyramids weren't built by aliens (they were actually built by a Goa'uld named Ra), but we do use the information available to us and form a hypothesis...


I'm familiar with the term and forming a hypothesis based upon proven facts about any given subject......heard of that too, but the incredible array of variations in human behavior cannot be pigeonholed into some neat 21st century pathology by looking back centuries at diaries or the musings of those observing the person. Take St. Francis...he was bipolar? Based upon what? If you want to throw a psych dx where does bipolar even come from? (and by the way, I have no religious axe to grind..could care less about him in that regard). Did he have psychosis or see God? I don't know but if it was psychosis why bipolar? Did he have the stigmata or self mutilate because he was borderline? I don't know. why on earth are there people who are sure they do know? These lists are very often (as they were here) presented as a statement of fact: "these people are bipolar", not "these people had symptoms suggestive of a possibility of bipolar or some other mental illness".

I think the whole point of the topic was to try to 1) make people feel that they're not alone in their struggles with MI, 2) let people know that it's possible to accomplish extraordinary things despite having MI, and 3) just have some fun.


I told you...all in favor of the fun of diagnosing fake people and I'm well aware of 1 and 2 and that's why it's annoying. We're on a forum of crazy people...human beings living now who are able to communicate by themselves about themselves...I think that's a pretty good indication that we're not alone. As for number 2, though I tend to loathe the apparent need of every celebrity who was a drunk or a druggie to come out and discuss their issues with the world so "people can understand that they're not alone and that there are even really fantastic people like me who are alcoholics", I don't feel the same way about people with illnesses in general whether MI or "physical" because it can serve a useful function but those are people who are alive and talking about themselves and their own experiences.

Frankly...this is the most annoying part for me, the fact that some people with MI seem to need to use their MI as a way of feeling special. We're no more nor no less special than anyone else on earth. I get irritated when I'm on other boards and people say they appreciate their illness because they're "more creative than normals" or "more empathetic than normals" or "have more interesting lives than normals" and that sort of sentiment. I'm close enough to normal to know that the non MI have experiences and pains and sufferings and daily struggles that in many ways are no different than that of the MI in terms of it's impact on their lives, their level of suffering, the capacity of creativity, for empathy, etc.

It's just my fucking pet peeve...no offense meant to anyone. I just don't need to believe that Lincoln was bipolar to feel that my illness matters or that I'm not alone or that I can achieve something in life and while there is nothing wrong with role models, I just happen to have a prejudice for living people with whom I know I have something in common and not dead people who may or may not have had much in common with me.
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