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Brain Changes From Mood And Psychotic Episodes


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#1 bunnyrabbit

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 05:51 PM

I know that mood episodes (manic, mixed, depressive) and psychotic episodes can cause various brain changes.

Does anyone know if these changes are permanent? Are these changes accumalitive? Is there a maxium amount of damage done no matter how many episodes a person has? Does it matter how long the mood and/or psychotic episode lasts?
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Current Meds: Lithium Carbonate 900mg, Geodon 85-90mg, Artane 2.75mg, Klonopin 1-1.125mg, Adderral 20mg, Provigil 100mg, Prolixin .33mg.
Dosages are the daily total. Most meds are taken in smaller doses throughout the day.

Past meds: I've tried almost everything except MAOI's, half of the TCA's, Clozaril, Remeron and Serazone.




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#2 notfred

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 06:25 PM

I know that mood episodes (manic, mixed, depressive) and psychotic episodes can cause various brain changes.

Does anyone know if these changes are permanent? Are these changes accumulative? Is there a maximum amount of damage done no matter how many episodes a person has? Does it matter how long the mood and/or psychotic episode lasts?



Those are not questions that can be answered with surety, neuroscience is not there yet.

I suspect these chages can become chronic if the underlying illness is not treated. Prior to 1950's and treatment, historical evidence seems to indicate there was significant disability in the chronic MI patient.

I suspect they are accumulative if the cause is not removed or treated or enough time between episodes is allowed for, to rewire and regrow.

I have no opinion on a maximum amount of damage.

As to if the episode length matters, well gee, the episode/mood/whatever causes the "changes" so it follows less is better.

nf
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Dx: Major Depressive Disorder, Attention Deficit Disorder PI, Refractory Insomnia, CSA, Temporal Lobe Epilepsy, Dyspraxia, Tremor
Psyc meds: Aplenzin 522 mg, Abilify 15 mg, Vyvanse 70 mg, Lunesta 6 mg, Levetiracetam 2000 mg, Propranolol ER 60 mg
Other: Fenofibrate, Atorvastatin, Lisinopril, Hctz, Asprin, Metformin, Januvia, Ranitidine, Cetirizine, Nasalide, Montelukast
PRN's: Lorazepam, Alprazolam, Dextroamphetamine, Propranolol, Cyproheptadine, Patanol, Prednisone, Ipratropium, Ondansetron, Hydrocodone, Doxepin
Supplements: Fish Oil 6 g, Multi-vitamin/mineral, vitamin D 1,500 IU

I am in full remission (296.36) from Depression. ADD, insomnia, Epilepsy, and the Pseudoparkinsonian tremor are well controlled.

 

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#3 notfred

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 07:36 PM

I believe there is sufficient evidence to prove actual loss of grey matter in depressed and schizophrenic patients.

I've read more than one study on this topic. Let me see if I can find them.

jook

ETA-

here's 2 of many-

http://ajp.psychiatr.../160/8/1516.pdf

http://www.scienceda...70720103036.htm



There is no doubt on that point. I was speaking about permanence.

nf

Edited by notfred, 28 September 2008 - 07:40 PM.

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Dx: Major Depressive Disorder, Attention Deficit Disorder PI, Refractory Insomnia, CSA, Temporal Lobe Epilepsy, Dyspraxia, Tremor
Psyc meds: Aplenzin 522 mg, Abilify 15 mg, Vyvanse 70 mg, Lunesta 6 mg, Levetiracetam 2000 mg, Propranolol ER 60 mg
Other: Fenofibrate, Atorvastatin, Lisinopril, Hctz, Asprin, Metformin, Januvia, Ranitidine, Cetirizine, Nasalide, Montelukast
PRN's: Lorazepam, Alprazolam, Dextroamphetamine, Propranolol, Cyproheptadine, Patanol, Prednisone, Ipratropium, Ondansetron, Hydrocodone, Doxepin
Supplements: Fish Oil 6 g, Multi-vitamin/mineral, vitamin D 1,500 IU

I am in full remission (296.36) from Depression. ADD, insomnia, Epilepsy, and the Pseudoparkinsonian tremor are well controlled.

 

J'ai seul la clef de cette parade sauvage.
Arthur Rimbaud, Les Illuminations, Parade

"I think you are on enough medications." --my pdoc
 

Dr. Frankenstein: You know, I'm a rather brilliant surgeon. Perhaps I can help you with that hump.

Igor: What hump?

 


#4 martasi2

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 07:42 PM

There is much research into regrowth of neurons and the brain's ability to repair itself. It's known as plasticity. Some meds (such as Lithium) can aid brain repair; also estrogen has been shown to help produce new brain cells. Not sure about other hormones in this regard. Do an online search with the word "plasticity" and see what comes up (also plasticity+your disorder).

As posted elsewhere here, there's also research into glutamate and its function in brain health and cell destruction as well as meds that work on this chemical system.

Try not to worry about brain damage from episodes. Thinking about sustained cumulative brain damage is a huge stressor, and there's no easy way to find an answer. You could always go to a major medical center with some sort of ongoing brain imaging study if you wanted to go this route. Also can read:

"Mind, Stress & Emotions" by Gene Wallenstein, Ph.D. (pub. 2003) has some interesting info. in this area.

Edited by martasi2, 28 September 2008 - 07:54 PM.

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#5 notfred

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 10:58 PM

Try not to worry about brain damage from episodes. Thinking about sustained cumulative brain damage is a huge stressor, and there's no easy way to find an answer.



One thing within our control is finding a treatment regimen that works and sticking with it. There is evidence that treatment will protect and grow parts of your neuroanatomy.

nf
  • 0

Dx: Major Depressive Disorder, Attention Deficit Disorder PI, Refractory Insomnia, CSA, Temporal Lobe Epilepsy, Dyspraxia, Tremor
Psyc meds: Aplenzin 522 mg, Abilify 15 mg, Vyvanse 70 mg, Lunesta 6 mg, Levetiracetam 2000 mg, Propranolol ER 60 mg
Other: Fenofibrate, Atorvastatin, Lisinopril, Hctz, Asprin, Metformin, Januvia, Ranitidine, Cetirizine, Nasalide, Montelukast
PRN's: Lorazepam, Alprazolam, Dextroamphetamine, Propranolol, Cyproheptadine, Patanol, Prednisone, Ipratropium, Ondansetron, Hydrocodone, Doxepin
Supplements: Fish Oil 6 g, Multi-vitamin/mineral, vitamin D 1,500 IU

I am in full remission (296.36) from Depression. ADD, insomnia, Epilepsy, and the Pseudoparkinsonian tremor are well controlled.

 

J'ai seul la clef de cette parade sauvage.
Arthur Rimbaud, Les Illuminations, Parade

"I think you are on enough medications." --my pdoc
 

Dr. Frankenstein: You know, I'm a rather brilliant surgeon. Perhaps I can help you with that hump.

Igor: What hump?

 


#6 bunnyrabbit

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 05:03 AM

Thank you all for your responses and information. You have gaiven me a lot to ponder.
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Current Meds: Lithium Carbonate 900mg, Geodon 85-90mg, Artane 2.75mg, Klonopin 1-1.125mg, Adderral 20mg, Provigil 100mg, Prolixin .33mg.
Dosages are the daily total. Most meds are taken in smaller doses throughout the day.

Past meds: I've tried almost everything except MAOI's, half of the TCA's, Clozaril, Remeron and Serazone.

#7 Jerod Poore

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 08:51 AM

There is no doubt on that point. I was speaking about permanence.


I would think damage would be permanent if left untreated.
And there are many studies proving the cellular growth benefits of lithium and some AEDs and some ADs.
Reversal is entirely possible with proper treatment.


Try not to worry about brain damage from episodes. Thinking about sustained cumulative brain damage is a huge stressor, and there's no easy way to find an answer.


One thing within our control is finding a treatment regimen that works and sticking with it. There is evidence that treatment will protect and grow parts of your neuroanatomy.


Those are the key elements, with mounting evidence in both rat and human studies involving epilepsy, bipolar disorder and schizophrenia that the damage from repeated episodes of seizures and/or extreme crazy (known as kindling) can be reversed.

They are also why anti-psychiatry groups and all of the factors that add to the stigma against medication are so harmful. One way or another untreated brain cooties kill.
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#8 bunnyrabbit

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 02:28 PM

I think Lithium helps the brain. In 1993, I saw a neurologist for headaches. She ordered a CT scan. I remember that she remarked that I had a densly packed brain. I was very proud of this. I think now my then densly packed brain was because I had been on lithium for 1 1/2 years. I don't think the research had been published about Lithium and brain growth at the time. I am concerned about the long, untreated psychosis and if I will have residual psychosis for the rest of my life, or if lithium will help my brain heal.
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Current Meds: Lithium Carbonate 900mg, Geodon 85-90mg, Artane 2.75mg, Klonopin 1-1.125mg, Adderral 20mg, Provigil 100mg, Prolixin .33mg.
Dosages are the daily total. Most meds are taken in smaller doses throughout the day.

Past meds: I've tried almost everything except MAOI's, half of the TCA's, Clozaril, Remeron and Serazone.

#9 Sduibek

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Posted 13 February 2009 - 05:59 PM

Someone mentioned stress above. That is something to think about for sure, as stress releases cortisol and high amounts of cortisol can cause brain damage. So if you're in a very high-stress job, home environment, etc., you need to get that under control. It's #2 under getting your meds stable in my book. You can't really expect your brain to fully heal / recover if there's chaos making you crazy in an entirely different way :mad:


http://www.youramazi...stressbrain.htm

http://www.fi.edu/le...ain/stress.html
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Don't forget that there's more to improving your mental health than just medications. Meds are the first step and major foundation, but you also need to focus on things like diet, exercise, viitamin levels, therapy, meaningful hobbies/job/relationship/purpose.


#10 bunnyrabbit

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 09:29 AM

Thanks for the info. :mad:
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Current Meds: Lithium Carbonate 900mg, Geodon 85-90mg, Artane 2.75mg, Klonopin 1-1.125mg, Adderral 20mg, Provigil 100mg, Prolixin .33mg.
Dosages are the daily total. Most meds are taken in smaller doses throughout the day.

Past meds: I've tried almost everything except MAOI's, half of the TCA's, Clozaril, Remeron and Serazone.

#11 Sduibek

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 12:56 PM

Thanks for the info. :)

Yep! Anytime. Learning is good... it's the bazooka and submachine gun to use against the devils of confusion and helplessness :mad:

Edited by Sduibek, 22 February 2009 - 12:56 PM.

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Don't forget that there's more to improving your mental health than just medications. Meds are the first step and major foundation, but you also need to focus on things like diet, exercise, viitamin levels, therapy, meaningful hobbies/job/relationship/purpose.



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