Jump to content


Click here to find a mentally interesting date at No Longer Lonely Keep Crazymeds on the air. Donate some spare electronic currency you have floating around The Cloud



Support Crazymeds. Download the FREE App to read Kindle books on your computer, tablet, or phone.


Photo

Brain Changes From Mood And Psychotic Episodes


  • Please log in to reply
10 replies to this topic

#1 bunnyrabbit

bunnyrabbit

    Would-be Neurologist

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,047 posts
  • Diagnoses: Schizoaffective d/o, bipolar type
  • Current Meds:See signature
  • Location:Phone

Posted 28 September 2008 - 05:51 PM

I know that mood episodes (manic, mixed, depressive) and psychotic episodes can cause various brain changes.

Does anyone know if these changes are permanent? Are these changes accumalitive? Is there a maxium amount of damage done no matter how many episodes a person has? Does it matter how long the mood and/or psychotic episode lasts?
  • 0
Current Meds: Lithium Carbonate 900mg, Geodon 85-90mg, Artane 2.75mg, Klonopin 1-1.125mg, Adderral 20mg, Provigil 100mg, Prolixin .33mg.
Dosages are the daily total. Most meds are taken in smaller doses throughout the day.

Past meds: I've tried almost everything except MAOI's, half of the TCA's, Clozaril, Remeron and Serazone.





#2 notfred

notfred

    Emergency Second Opinion

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,261 posts
  • Diagnoses:see signature
  • Current Meds:see signature
  • Location:USA

Posted 28 September 2008 - 06:25 PM

I know that mood episodes (manic, mixed, depressive) and psychotic episodes can cause various brain changes.

Does anyone know if these changes are permanent? Are these changes accumulative? Is there a maximum amount of damage done no matter how many episodes a person has? Does it matter how long the mood and/or psychotic episode lasts?



Those are not questions that can be answered with surety, neuroscience is not there yet.

I suspect these chages can become chronic if the underlying illness is not treated. Prior to 1950's and treatment, historical evidence seems to indicate there was significant disability in the chronic MI patient.

I suspect they are accumulative if the cause is not removed or treated or enough time between episodes is allowed for, to rewire and regrow.

I have no opinion on a maximum amount of damage.

As to if the episode length matters, well gee, the episode/mood/whatever causes the "changes" so it follows less is better.

nf
  • 0

I am in full remission (DSM IV 296.36) from Depression. Insomnia, ADHD-PI, Epilepsy, and the Pseudoparkinsonian tremor are well controlled.

 

Psyc Meds: Forfivo XL 450 mg (Wellbutrin XL), Aripiprazole 15 mg (Abilify), Eszopiclone 6 mg (Lunesta), Vyvanse 70 mg (Lisdexamfetamine), Levetiracetam 2,000 mg (Keppra), Propranolol ER 60 mg (Inderal)
PRN: Clonazepam 1-2 mg (Klonopin), Lorazepam 1-4 mg (Ativan), Alprazolam 1-2 mg (Xanax), Dextroamphetamine 10-40 mg (Dexedrine), Propranolol 20-40 mg (Inderal), Ondansetron 8-16 mg (Zofran)

Supps: Multi-vitamin/mineral, Vitamin D-3 2,000 IU, Omega-3-acid ethyl esters 4 g (Lovaza), Hemp seed oil 2 g, CoQ10 100 mg, L-Glutathione 200 mg

Dx: Depression, Insomnia, ADHD-PI, Temporal Lobe Epilepsy, Dyspraxia, Tremor

I also take allergy and diabetes + it's complications meds.

All doses are a daily total.


#3 notfred

notfred

    Emergency Second Opinion

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,261 posts
  • Diagnoses:see signature
  • Current Meds:see signature
  • Location:USA

Posted 28 September 2008 - 07:36 PM

I believe there is sufficient evidence to prove actual loss of grey matter in depressed and schizophrenic patients.

I've read more than one study on this topic. Let me see if I can find them.

jook

ETA-

here's 2 of many-

http://ajp.psychiatr.../160/8/1516.pdf

http://www.scienceda...70720103036.htm



There is no doubt on that point. I was speaking about permanence.

nf

Edited by notfred, 28 September 2008 - 07:40 PM.

  • 0

I am in full remission (DSM IV 296.36) from Depression. Insomnia, ADHD-PI, Epilepsy, and the Pseudoparkinsonian tremor are well controlled.

 

Psyc Meds: Forfivo XL 450 mg (Wellbutrin XL), Aripiprazole 15 mg (Abilify), Eszopiclone 6 mg (Lunesta), Vyvanse 70 mg (Lisdexamfetamine), Levetiracetam 2,000 mg (Keppra), Propranolol ER 60 mg (Inderal)
PRN: Clonazepam 1-2 mg (Klonopin), Lorazepam 1-4 mg (Ativan), Alprazolam 1-2 mg (Xanax), Dextroamphetamine 10-40 mg (Dexedrine), Propranolol 20-40 mg (Inderal), Ondansetron 8-16 mg (Zofran)

Supps: Multi-vitamin/mineral, Vitamin D-3 2,000 IU, Omega-3-acid ethyl esters 4 g (Lovaza), Hemp seed oil 2 g, CoQ10 100 mg, L-Glutathione 200 mg

Dx: Depression, Insomnia, ADHD-PI, Temporal Lobe Epilepsy, Dyspraxia, Tremor

I also take allergy and diabetes + it's complications meds.

All doses are a daily total.


#4 martasi2

martasi2

    Ready for the MCAT

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,210 posts

Posted 28 September 2008 - 07:42 PM

There is much research into regrowth of neurons and the brain's ability to repair itself. It's known as plasticity. Some meds (such as Lithium) can aid brain repair; also estrogen has been shown to help produce new brain cells. Not sure about other hormones in this regard. Do an online search with the word "plasticity" and see what comes up (also plasticity+your disorder).

As posted elsewhere here, there's also research into glutamate and its function in brain health and cell destruction as well as meds that work on this chemical system.

Try not to worry about brain damage from episodes. Thinking about sustained cumulative brain damage is a huge stressor, and there's no easy way to find an answer. You could always go to a major medical center with some sort of ongoing brain imaging study if you wanted to go this route. Also can read:

"Mind, Stress & Emotions" by Gene Wallenstein, Ph.D. (pub. 2003) has some interesting info. in this area.

Edited by martasi2, 28 September 2008 - 07:54 PM.

  • 0

#5 notfred

notfred

    Emergency Second Opinion

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,261 posts
  • Diagnoses:see signature
  • Current Meds:see signature
  • Location:USA

Posted 28 September 2008 - 10:58 PM

Try not to worry about brain damage from episodes. Thinking about sustained cumulative brain damage is a huge stressor, and there's no easy way to find an answer.



One thing within our control is finding a treatment regimen that works and sticking with it. There is evidence that treatment will protect and grow parts of your neuroanatomy.

nf
  • 0

I am in full remission (DSM IV 296.36) from Depression. Insomnia, ADHD-PI, Epilepsy, and the Pseudoparkinsonian tremor are well controlled.

 

Psyc Meds: Forfivo XL 450 mg (Wellbutrin XL), Aripiprazole 15 mg (Abilify), Eszopiclone 6 mg (Lunesta), Vyvanse 70 mg (Lisdexamfetamine), Levetiracetam 2,000 mg (Keppra), Propranolol ER 60 mg (Inderal)
PRN: Clonazepam 1-2 mg (Klonopin), Lorazepam 1-4 mg (Ativan), Alprazolam 1-2 mg (Xanax), Dextroamphetamine 10-40 mg (Dexedrine), Propranolol 20-40 mg (Inderal), Ondansetron 8-16 mg (Zofran)

Supps: Multi-vitamin/mineral, Vitamin D-3 2,000 IU, Omega-3-acid ethyl esters 4 g (Lovaza), Hemp seed oil 2 g, CoQ10 100 mg, L-Glutathione 200 mg

Dx: Depression, Insomnia, ADHD-PI, Temporal Lobe Epilepsy, Dyspraxia, Tremor

I also take allergy and diabetes + it's complications meds.

All doses are a daily total.


#6 bunnyrabbit

bunnyrabbit

    Would-be Neurologist

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,047 posts
  • Diagnoses: Schizoaffective d/o, bipolar type
  • Current Meds:See signature
  • Location:Phone

Posted 29 September 2008 - 05:03 AM

Thank you all for your responses and information. You have gaiven me a lot to ponder.
  • 0
Current Meds: Lithium Carbonate 900mg, Geodon 85-90mg, Artane 2.75mg, Klonopin 1-1.125mg, Adderral 20mg, Provigil 100mg, Prolixin .33mg.
Dosages are the daily total. Most meds are taken in smaller doses throughout the day.

Past meds: I've tried almost everything except MAOI's, half of the TCA's, Clozaril, Remeron and Serazone.

#7 Jerod Poore

Jerod Poore

    Administrator

  • Chief Citizen Medical Expert
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 4,250 posts
  • Diagnoses:Bipolar NOS, PME 1, Autism, Agoraphobia/Social Anxiety
  • Current Meds:LTG 200mg, TPM 400mg, protriptyline 50mg, buspirone 60mg, EPA 600
  • Location:Saint Regis Montana

Posted 29 September 2008 - 08:51 AM

There is no doubt on that point. I was speaking about permanence.


I would think damage would be permanent if left untreated.
And there are many studies proving the cellular growth benefits of lithium and some AEDs and some ADs.
Reversal is entirely possible with proper treatment.


Try not to worry about brain damage from episodes. Thinking about sustained cumulative brain damage is a huge stressor, and there's no easy way to find an answer.


One thing within our control is finding a treatment regimen that works and sticking with it. There is evidence that treatment will protect and grow parts of your neuroanatomy.


Those are the key elements, with mounting evidence in both rat and human studies involving epilepsy, bipolar disorder and schizophrenia that the damage from repeated episodes of seizures and/or extreme crazy (known as kindling) can be reversed.

They are also why anti-psychiatry groups and all of the factors that add to the stigma against medication are so harmful. One way or another untreated brain cooties kill.
  • 0
Jerod Poore - Owner, Founder and Chief Citizen Medical Expert of crazymeds.us
I am not a doctor, nor do I play one on TV. No doctor, nurse, pharmacist or lawyer was harmed in the creation of this post. No warranty is expressed or implied. Not valid with any other offer. Void where prohibited.

Current meds: lamotrigine 200mg, topiramate 400mg, buspirone 60mg, protriptyline 60mg, EPA 600mg, lorazepam 1mg PRN
Past meds (likely incomplete): Abilify, clonazepam, desipramine, diazepam, Gabitril, lithium, methylphenidate, Neurontin, Paxil, prochlorperazine, Provigil, Prozac, Risperdal, Seroquel, Serzone, Strattera, Trileptal, Zyprexa

#8 bunnyrabbit

bunnyrabbit

    Would-be Neurologist

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,047 posts
  • Diagnoses: Schizoaffective d/o, bipolar type
  • Current Meds:See signature
  • Location:Phone

Posted 29 September 2008 - 02:28 PM

I think Lithium helps the brain. In 1993, I saw a neurologist for headaches. She ordered a CT scan. I remember that she remarked that I had a densly packed brain. I was very proud of this. I think now my then densly packed brain was because I had been on lithium for 1 1/2 years. I don't think the research had been published about Lithium and brain growth at the time. I am concerned about the long, untreated psychosis and if I will have residual psychosis for the rest of my life, or if lithium will help my brain heal.
  • 0
Current Meds: Lithium Carbonate 900mg, Geodon 85-90mg, Artane 2.75mg, Klonopin 1-1.125mg, Adderral 20mg, Provigil 100mg, Prolixin .33mg.
Dosages are the daily total. Most meds are taken in smaller doses throughout the day.

Past meds: I've tried almost everything except MAOI's, half of the TCA's, Clozaril, Remeron and Serazone.

#9 Lazarus Prime

Lazarus Prime

    Amateur Psychopharmacologist

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 407 posts

Posted 13 February 2009 - 05:59 PM

Someone mentioned stress above. That is something to think about for sure, as stress releases cortisol and high amounts of cortisol can cause brain damage. So if you're in a very high-stress job, home environment, etc., you need to get that under control. It's #2 under getting your meds stable in my book. You can't really expect your brain to fully heal / recover if there's chaos making you crazy in an entirely different way :mad:


http://www.youramazi...stressbrain.htm

http://www.fi.edu/le...ain/stress.html
  • 0

#10 bunnyrabbit

bunnyrabbit

    Would-be Neurologist

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,047 posts
  • Diagnoses: Schizoaffective d/o, bipolar type
  • Current Meds:See signature
  • Location:Phone

Posted 14 February 2009 - 09:29 AM

Thanks for the info. :mad:
  • 0
Current Meds: Lithium Carbonate 900mg, Geodon 85-90mg, Artane 2.75mg, Klonopin 1-1.125mg, Adderral 20mg, Provigil 100mg, Prolixin .33mg.
Dosages are the daily total. Most meds are taken in smaller doses throughout the day.

Past meds: I've tried almost everything except MAOI's, half of the TCA's, Clozaril, Remeron and Serazone.

#11 Lazarus Prime

Lazarus Prime

    Amateur Psychopharmacologist

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 407 posts

Posted 22 February 2009 - 12:56 PM

Thanks for the info. :)

Yep! Anytime. Learning is good... it's the bazooka and submachine gun to use against the devils of confusion and helplessness :mad:

Edited by Sduibek, 22 February 2009 - 12:56 PM.

  • 0


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users



Keep Crazymeds on the air. Donate some spare electronic currency you have floating around The Cloud






Shirts to swipe from
Crazymeds’ Clothes Line.
See more ways to let my medsexpress your feelingsat Straitjacket T-shirts.Shirts, hoodies & more.
$14-$55
Batshit Crazy shirt
Batshit Crazy
Mentally Interesting shirts at Straitjacket T-shirts
Mentally Interesting
Medicated For Your Protection shirt
Medicated For Your Protection
Breakfast of Champions shirts at Straitjacket T-shirts
Breakfast of Champions
Bipolar Is NOT Contagious shirts at Straitjacket T-shirts
Bipolar Is NOT Contagious

Don’t worry about actually buying one. Windows shop and share the designs you’d like to buy or find worthy of ridicule. What else are you doing now? Working? Sure you are.