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Nightmares And Night Terrors Probably Related To Meds

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#1 modestman240

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 11:04 AM

How do you deal with the night sweats, nightmares and night terrors most likely associated with psychiatric meds? Just want opinions or insight.


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Current psych Meds: Zoloft 100 MG, Seroquel 150MG, Clonazepam 1MGX3 daily (2 MG more as needed)

Non Psych Meds: Percocet 5/325, UltramER (Tramadol 100MG)

 

Previous AD's: Celexa, Lexapro, Effexor XR, Cymbalta,Sertraline

Previous Benzos & Anxiolytics: Lorazepam, Alprazolam, Buspar

AAPS: Seroquel XR, Rispidone,Abilify

 

 

Gradually, then suddenly.' That's how depression hits. You wake up one morning, afraid that you're gonna live.

 

 





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#2 Demento

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 11:23 AM

I've never had night terrors due to meds. Which med do you think is causing it?

 

EDIT: I see that you are only on 2 mg of Abilify. Low doses of Abilify caused me a LOT of anxiety that did not go away until my dose was increased to 10 mg. Then it kicked in an REALLY worked without any anxiety at all.


Edited by Demento, 20 September 2013 - 11:25 AM.

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#3 modestman240

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 11:29 AM

thanks Demento! Good to know. I'm afraid to go up to the 5MG cuz I don't want to have horrible akasthisia. But I probably should for more depression and irrational thought relief.


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Current psych Meds: Zoloft 100 MG, Seroquel 150MG, Clonazepam 1MGX3 daily (2 MG more as needed)

Non Psych Meds: Percocet 5/325, UltramER (Tramadol 100MG)

 

Previous AD's: Celexa, Lexapro, Effexor XR, Cymbalta,Sertraline

Previous Benzos & Anxiolytics: Lorazepam, Alprazolam, Buspar

AAPS: Seroquel XR, Rispidone,Abilify

 

 

Gradually, then suddenly.' That's how depression hits. You wake up one morning, afraid that you're gonna live.

 

 


#4 modestman240

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 11:31 AM

I think it has to be the combo of all of them. Like I've always suffered in some way from night terrors.  If I had to pick a med, I'd say Abilify probably:/ so many meds, so hard to tell lol. I also notice that when I have to take the percocet for pain at nightish hours, I get borderline demonic nightmares if that helps.


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Current psych Meds: Zoloft 100 MG, Seroquel 150MG, Clonazepam 1MGX3 daily (2 MG more as needed)

Non Psych Meds: Percocet 5/325, UltramER (Tramadol 100MG)

 

Previous AD's: Celexa, Lexapro, Effexor XR, Cymbalta,Sertraline

Previous Benzos & Anxiolytics: Lorazepam, Alprazolam, Buspar

AAPS: Seroquel XR, Rispidone,Abilify

 

 

Gradually, then suddenly.' That's how depression hits. You wake up one morning, afraid that you're gonna live.

 

 


#5 serenity

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 05:06 PM

Personally, if they are caused by meds, I don't really think you can stop them from happening ~ it's really whatever the med wants to do. Some meds are linked with higher rates of it. You may want to check the percentage of just how many people continue to have them, whether it will go away or lasts the entirety of taking the med. All I ever really did, was do my best to ignore it... Even when I said to my thoughts, come on, through the best scariest things at me, it never really increased them. Though after a while you do get bored of them, its like, oh this again, how boring, i just want to get to sleep.


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#6 neuropharm

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 05:08 PM

I get very vivid and strange dreams from my meds, especially when starting out or going up in dose. Although without meds my dreams are usually worse.

I've noticed it mostly with meds that have some antihistamine action.

I think sometimes antihypertensives are taken for night sweats. I wake up in a puddle.

 

EDIT:

Prazosin is supposed to be really good for nightmares in PTSD.  Would also probably help with the sweating.


Edited by neuropharm, 20 September 2013 - 08:20 PM.

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past meds: alprazolam, aripiprazole, chlorpromazine, clonazepam, clonidine, desvenlafaxine, duloxetine, escitalopram, fluoxetine, gabapentin, hydroxyzine, lamotragine, levetiracetam, oxcarbazepine, paroxetine, perphenazine, pregabalin, risperidone, thiothixene, topiramate, trazodone

#7 nukesandchems

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 12:31 AM

thanks Demento! Good to know. I'm afraid to go up to the 5MG cuz I don't want to have horrible akasthisia. But I probably should for more depression and irrational thought relief.

 

Don't let the akathisia keep you from a drug you like! Your pdoc can help you with it, sometimes with propranolol or cogentin.

 

Depakote has been giving me some seriously weird but very vivid dreams. I did not remember my entire dreams until I started taking it.

 

I had night terrors until I started taking Luvox and went back on the clonazepam, but the terrors weren't caused by a med, it was PTSD.


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#8 modestman240

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 06:08 PM

yeah, I hear the PTSD. That has to be a problem with me and my nightmares.  I'm not planning on going off the Abilify because of the akasthisia because the Klonopin controls it.  Unfortunately, I'm severely dependent on 5MG a day already.  Hopefully it will prevent it.  I can't believe how much Abilify has helped me.


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Current psych Meds: Zoloft 100 MG, Seroquel 150MG, Clonazepam 1MGX3 daily (2 MG more as needed)

Non Psych Meds: Percocet 5/325, UltramER (Tramadol 100MG)

 

Previous AD's: Celexa, Lexapro, Effexor XR, Cymbalta,Sertraline

Previous Benzos & Anxiolytics: Lorazepam, Alprazolam, Buspar

AAPS: Seroquel XR, Rispidone,Abilify

 

 

Gradually, then suddenly.' That's how depression hits. You wake up one morning, afraid that you're gonna live.

 

 


#9 nukesandchems

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 11:28 PM

  I can't believe how much Abilify has helped me.

 

That's great! Some people have to go through medication after medication before they find something they really like, so congrats to you. :)


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Meds Tried: Serzone, Paxil, Lexapro, Doxepin, Neurontin, Ativan, Seroquel, Tegretol, Topamax, Effexor XR, Geodon, Valium, Zyprexa, Abilify, Lyrica, Wellbutrin, Trazodone, Ambien, Remeron, Cogentin, Latuda

 

 

 


#10 obsidian3

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 03:18 AM

So very many MIs come intertwined with halucinatory dreams .....sleeping or waking.          PTSD, Psychosis, Narcolepsy, Epilepsy, Migraine, Major Anxiety and Depression :  and all of these dreams have the potential for physical activity, even vioence.  

My beloved, gentle, father had narcolepsy and cataplexy and routinely had dreams of such terror that he would leap into defensive   action and be a danger to everything and everyone in the vicinity.     He was prescribed huge doses of benzos to help control these  dreams with reasonable success: but then he was also on industrial quantities of methamphetamines so it's anyones guess what was actually happening in his brain!                    Interestingly almost all of his daytime halucinations were of happy events.   He adored going out for an espresso coffee ( a double short black)  and indulging in smoking a Camel cigarette or three ...so almost all of his waking dreams revolved around this happy ritual.

 

If I have a point that is relevant to this topic it is simply that haluciniatory dreams are part of the symptomology of many, if not most, interesting minds at some time in their natural (or unnatural) course and also of the drugs that seek to mitigate against them.

 

What a huge mob of words to describe the obvious and the inevitable !


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#11 modestman240

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 03:37 PM

oh wow that's aweful to hear. But insightful on the nightmare info.

 

 

  I can't believe how much Abilify has helped me.

 

That's great! Some people have to go through medication after medication before they find something they really like, so congrats to you. :)

 

Did you see my list of prior meds LMAO!? Thank you though! All's well except for some restlessness:/ Clonazepam helps sort of. I wish i didn't have an extreme benzo tolerance


Edited by modestman240, 22 September 2013 - 03:38 PM.

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Current psych Meds: Zoloft 100 MG, Seroquel 150MG, Clonazepam 1MGX3 daily (2 MG more as needed)

Non Psych Meds: Percocet 5/325, UltramER (Tramadol 100MG)

 

Previous AD's: Celexa, Lexapro, Effexor XR, Cymbalta,Sertraline

Previous Benzos & Anxiolytics: Lorazepam, Alprazolam, Buspar

AAPS: Seroquel XR, Rispidone,Abilify

 

 

Gradually, then suddenly.' That's how depression hits. You wake up one morning, afraid that you're gonna live.

 

 


#12 VAL

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 04:38 PM

neuro,

 

Prazosin is supposed to be really good for nightmares in PTSD.  Would also probably help with the sweating

 

It's  been great for my PTSD. I either take 2mg at night when I go to bed or 1mg at night and one in the afternoon. I only split it up when I'm having problems with hyperarousal. It does help the hyperarousal but the most striking change was the elimination of PTSD nightmares.


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Past Meds: Siniquan, Elavil, Imipramine, Zoloft, Seroquel, Abilify, Nardil, Emsam, Rozerem and Ambien
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#13 modestman240

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 04:50 PM

thanks val,

 

I'll have to ask my pdoc about that if it gets too bad or talk to her about it at my next appointment!  Does anyone who has/had akasthisia notice klonopin didn't help all that great? I don't know if it's my benzo tolerance.  Luckily I'm not too bad, especially since my Abilify is actually working. Odd, I guess i'm not medically treatment resistant after all :D


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Current psych Meds: Zoloft 100 MG, Seroquel 150MG, Clonazepam 1MGX3 daily (2 MG more as needed)

Non Psych Meds: Percocet 5/325, UltramER (Tramadol 100MG)

 

Previous AD's: Celexa, Lexapro, Effexor XR, Cymbalta,Sertraline

Previous Benzos & Anxiolytics: Lorazepam, Alprazolam, Buspar

AAPS: Seroquel XR, Rispidone,Abilify

 

 

Gradually, then suddenly.' That's how depression hits. You wake up one morning, afraid that you're gonna live.

 

 


#14 nukesandchems

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 10:59 PM

 

 

Does anyone who has/had akasthisia notice klonopin didn't help all that great?

 

It really could be your benzo tolerance, but for some people it just doesn't work. It doesn't work that way for me. I need the requip. I went off of it when I stopped taking latuda and right away I was having akathisia again. My psych nurse guessed it was from the Seroquel. Once I started taking it again, no more akathisia. The klonopin only takes an edge of my nightly propensity to freak the hell out.


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Diagnosis: Bipolar Disorder, Panic Disorder, PTSD, OCD, Fibromyalgia
Meds Now: 300mg Lamictal, 1000mg Depakote ER, 200mg Luvox ER, 800mg Seroquel XR, 2mg Requip, 60mg Propranolol ER, 2mg Lunesta, 1mg Klonopin (at night), 1mg Klonopin prn
Meds Tried: Serzone, Paxil, Lexapro, Doxepin, Neurontin, Ativan, Seroquel, Tegretol, Topamax, Effexor XR, Geodon, Valium, Zyprexa, Abilify, Lyrica, Wellbutrin, Trazodone, Ambien, Remeron, Cogentin, Latuda

 

 

 


#15 VisualSnow

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 06:33 PM

Never had the night terrors, but definitely nightmares on a few and now night sweats on the new one.  Moving up my dose a bit during the day and making sure I went to bed on an empty stomach at least kept the severity as low as possible.  I don't know why, but every time I had a snack before bed the nightmares would be WAY worse.  Sadly, I have found no solutions to waking up in a puddle of sweat. 


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#16 promicarus

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 08:39 AM

"I don't know why, but every time I had a snack before bed the nightmares would be WAY worse"

 

   Few are aware of the fact that 90% of our serotonin is in our guts. Likely, the shift in the serotonin from brain to gut, due to the need to digest your food, lay the groundwork for a low-serotonin driven anxiety which is fertile ground for nightmares and associated nastiness. This is the same reason that irritable bowel syndrome is often associated with depression.

 

Serotonin levels peter out as the day wears on, and stress throughout the day takes a greater toll on levels. It's actually theorized that the reason many people crave carbs later in the evening/night is because the body is trying to replenish serotonin levels, as carbohydrates are most immediately converted to serotonin. The addition of a 5htp supplement is an option--it's a precursor to serotonin and can boost levels, aiding not only in sleep, but diminishing overall malaise and negative, obsessive thinking that many experience as night approaches. If you find that you're a carb craver, especially late at night, look to a dirth of serotonin as one of the driving factors in your neurochemical ailments.

 

I, too, have PTSD--severe and chronic--and the nightmares/night terrors are one of the most problematic symptoms, not only due to the fact that a lack of sleep obvsiously can bring down the house of the rest of your mood and plans, in general, but more practically and specifically, due to the fact that blocking out dreams, in PTSD, is only a stopgap measure, if current theories of emotional memory consolidation during sleep turn out to hold water.

 

  The currently prevailing theory is that, during sleep--even during nightmares (especially during nightmares)--the body is experiencing trauma which the conscious mind blocks out during the day as a means of functioning and maintaining some sense of equilibrium, and that it's during REM sleep that these traumatic memories are "processed" and shifted from storage in the right hemisphere, where they exist as emotionally charged images and in an inchoate, formless and visceral experience--into the left brain, where they become intellectually integrated into some framework of conscious comprehension, and can thereby be controlled and submit to the will of the individual, rather than "jumping out and grabbing one" without warning or any seeming sense of rhyme or reason, necessarily (there's more about this phase of REM being evolutionarily necessary in order for the individual to store reasoned reactions to his daytime experiences, the better to learn from them when faced with similar challenge, but that's off-topic).

 

  There's so little known about the way prazosin affects nightmares, currently (that I'm aware of), that I wonder about its long-term use, and suppression of REM sleep as a solution to nightmares. If you're suppressing REM sleep, after all, not only are you not "processing these traumatic incidents", but you're not really getting brain-sleep. And you can't go on for long like that without it showing up in lots of other areas.

 

I'm not a working scientist or Doctor, but that's my take on it, and the reason I don't currently use prazosin. And my nightmares have gradually begun to subside, though it's taken a few years, now, off of REM inhibiting substances.

 

But of course, if you're not getting any physical rest otherwise, it has to be an option.


Edited by promicarus, 21 October 2013 - 12:10 PM.

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#17 dymphna

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 01:56 AM

Night terrors and nightmares are two distinct entities.

 

Night terrors are the result of a slow wave sleep interruption, usually occurring 2 hours into the sleep cycle, and accompanied by some sort of movement disorder (RLS) or latent (single gene) seizure disorder (whether or not this is known to the patient).  Most patients who experience night terrors have actually experienced them since childhood, whether or not they remember it (hence the value of family history), as it is a genetic disorder. "True" night terrors are never "remembered". Despite the best attempts by some in the psychiatry field, night terrors are not widely accepted to be something that resides in, nor is "fixable" by psychiatric or psychologic means.  They are normally addressed by first assessing the patient with a sleep study to identify any breathing difficulties and/or movement disorders that are treatable, and then by a neurologist to check for any possible neurological issues.  The neurologic examination is very important as, a person may wake up with all of the symptoms of a night terror, but be cognizant of what they saw.  That is consistent with a partial seizure; a type of episode in which a patient retains memories of events.

 

Nightmares, on the other hand, are, dreams.  As such, they are changeable.  What I mean is, since dreams are our body's "filter" for our emotions while we sleep - our daily processor of crap, so to speak, we have the ability, in our REM state, to essentially walk within them and change their outcome.  It sounds like a bunch of hooey, but it isn't.  It also is not something that is easy to learn.  If one thinks about it, it is no different than how one "becomes" someone else (slayer of dragons, Lothario, CEO, etc.) in a dream; in this case, one simply changes the direction that the dream happens to be moving.  Instead of getting the shit beat out of you by your husband, you have an under over shotgun and you blow his head off.  Again, though, if a person has chronic nightmares vs sudden onset ones, it is generally assumed that a patient is dealing with some sort of sleep disorder rather than "just" a history of trauma.

 

Believe it or not, not everyone gets nightmares.  Not everyone remembers their dreams even.  Even weirder, it has been proposed that not everyone who has dealt with PTSD gets nightmares: that the "nightmares" are actually simply memory intrusions, not "true" nightmares. 

 

Fascinating stuff.

 

 

Dymphna


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Yes, my name really is Dymphna.

 

I'm not a doctor, nurse, pharmacist, or therapist.

I can find you an answer and I won't blow smoke up your ass.

 

St. Dymphna is the Patron for brain maladies.

 

I'm the Enforcer.

 

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#18 CrueLworLD

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 07:18 AM

I don't that many night terrors but I do get some, like spiders crawling on my face and I'm unable to move.

But most of my dreams are just wild vivid crazy ones with a lot of detail and are very intense. Some I do actually enjoy.

Like the dreams of doing crazy things I would never attempt in life. Had one that I was driving a small red convertable sports car in LA with two old friends of mine. I drove like a maniac. The engine was all beefed up and had so much horsepower and torque that I could lift the front end off the ground when I punched the gas. I raced a black crotch rocket and we both rode a wheelie for 2 blocks straight before my car slammed back down on the ground. I even remember what the biker was wearing. Complete black leather suit with matching black helmet.

After that I told my buddy "watch this" and swerved into oncoming traffic at 100+mph swerving in and out of traffic like a madman. That's when I woke up, breathing heavy and even my back was sweating.

There has been nights that I wake up from a crazy dream, fall back asleep, and instantly jump back into a different dream. I've had up to 4 seperate dreams in one night. It seems as soon as I fall back asleep It starts over instantly.

I never dreamt like this until I started with my meds. Even if I do get enough hours of sleep I still feel exhausted from all the wild dreams the next day.

Now I can't sleep much at all. Going back to the doc today and I'm going to bring up my lack of sleep along with several other things. I'm pretty sure it's because I recently detoxed off of alcohol and my brain was so dependent on using that as a sleeping pill.

Now my brain just doesn't shut off it seems. It's 9:30am right now and I'm going to try again for the 4th time to get a bit of rest.

Have a feeling my dr will just want to prescribe me more pills. I really don't want to go that route though. I already feel like I take more than what I want to right now.

Well good luck everyone. Here goes another try.... goodnight.. hopefully. Or I should say good morning I guess. :)
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#19 promicarus

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 11:54 PM

Night terrors and nightmares are two distinct entities.

 

Night terrors are the result of a slow wave sleep interruption, usually occurring 2 hours into the sleep cycle, and accompanied by some sort of movement disorder (RLS) or latent (single gene) seizure disorder (whether or not this is known to the patient).  Most patients who experience night terrors have actually experienced them since childhood, whether or not they remember it (hence the value of family history), as it is a genetic disorder. "True" night terrors are never "remembered". Despite the best attempts by some in the psychiatry field, night terrors are not widely accepted to be something that resides in, nor is "fixable" by psychiatric or psychologic means.  They are normally addressed by first assessing the patient with a sleep study to identify any breathing difficulties and/or movement disorders that are treatable, and then by a neurologist to check for any possible neurological issues.  The neurologic examination is very important as, a person may wake up with all of the symptoms of a night terror, but be cognizant of what they saw.  That is consistent with a partial seizure; a type of episode in which a patient retains memories of events.

 

Nightmares, on the other hand, are, dreams.  As such, they are changeable.  What I mean is, since dreams are our body's "filter" for our emotions while we sleep - our daily processor of crap, so to speak, we have the ability, in our REM state, to essentially walk within them and change their outcome.  It sounds like a bunch of hooey, but it isn't.  It also is not something that is easy to learn.  If one thinks about it, it is no different than how one "becomes" someone else (slayer of dragons, Lothario, CEO, etc.) in a dream; in this case, one simply changes the direction that the dream happens to be moving.  Instead of getting the shit beat out of you by your husband, you have an under over shotgun and you blow his head off.  Again, though, if a person has chronic nightmares vs sudden onset ones, it is generally assumed that a patient is dealing with some sort of sleep disorder rather than "just" a history of trauma.

 

Believe it or not, not everyone gets nightmares.  Not everyone remembers their dreams even.  Even weirder, it has been proposed that not everyone who has dealt with PTSD gets nightmares: that the "nightmares" are actually simply memory intrusions, not "true" nightmares. 

 

Fascinating stuff.

 

 

Dymphna

Thanks much for the specifics. Great info.


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#20 obsidian3

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 01:22 AM

Seriously good summary  ...  Thank you Dymphna.


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#21 promicarus

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 10:58 AM

I don't that many night terrors but I do get some, like spiders crawling on my face and I'm unable to move.

But most of my dreams are just wild vivid crazy ones with a lot of detail and are very intense. Some I do actually enjoy.

Like the dreams of doing crazy things I would never attempt in life. Had one that I was driving a small red convertable sports car in LA with two old friends of mine. I drove like a maniac. The engine was all beefed up and had so much horsepower and torque that I could lift the front end off the ground when I punched the gas. I raced a black crotch rocket and we both rode a wheelie for 2 blocks straight before my car slammed back down on the ground. I even remember what the biker was wearing. Complete black leather suit with matching black helmet.

After that I told my buddy "watch this" and swerved into oncoming traffic at 100+mph swerving in and out of traffic like a madman. That's when I woke up, breathing heavy and even my back was sweating.

There has been nights that I wake up from a crazy dream, fall back asleep, and instantly jump back into a different dream. I've had up to 4 seperate dreams in one night. It seems as soon as I fall back asleep It starts over instantly.

I never dreamt like this until I started with my meds. Even if I do get enough hours of sleep I still feel exhausted from all the wild dreams the next day.

Now I can't sleep much at all. Going back to the doc today and I'm going to bring up my lack of sleep along with several other things. I'm pretty sure it's because I recently detoxed off of alcohol and my brain was so dependent on using that as a sleeping pill.

Now my brain just doesn't shut off it seems. It's 9:30am right now and I'm going to try again for the 4th time to get a bit of rest.

Have a feeling my dr will just want to prescribe me more pills. I really don't want to go that route though. I already feel like I take more than what I want to right now.

Well good luck everyone. Here goes another try.... goodnight.. hopefully. Or I should say good morning I guess. :)

 

If you've recently detoxed from alcohol, that's why you haven't been dreaming--alcohol inhibits REM sleep, when dreams occur.

 

It sounds like you have a case of "monkey mind"--a term used in Zen practice which is intended to describe the untrained mind, when it's allowed to bounce whichever way the wind blows. Very common in alchohol detox/recovery: A chemical has been controlling/dampening your mind for all this time, so now that you're without it, you're without practice in controllling it yourself. I had/have the same problem. Kind of like taking the training wheels off you're bike--it's unsteady going for a while, till you get you're balance. I feel for you. The lack of sleep is standard, as well. Someone told me once "You can't die from a lack of sleep"--but it sure feels like it.

 

I'd be careful with the benzos, especially if you have a long history with alcohol, and I noticed that you're on Clonazepam. If you find you're finding excuses to take "just one more", I'd tell the doc immediately, and find another means of controlling anxiety. I don't say this lightly--I have severe anxiety issues myself, and telling someone "just find a way to cope with anxiety" is like telling someone "just learn to play the violin". But there are alternatives--phenibut, skullcap, lobelia, passion flower, kava, and the list goes on. Just keep an eye-out for any urges to up the dose of the Clonazepam.

 

Good luck


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#22 martasi2

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 12:28 PM

modestman,

 

Opioids like Percocet (it's listed in your non-psych meds) can cause nightmares. 


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