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Violent Criminals with no History of Mental Illness


179 replies to this topic

#121 2catsmad

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 10:49 AM

That is the kind of person you hope is found guilty and then thrown into general population. Lots of prisoners, to be sure, and most are somebody's Daddy. I suppose that sounds barbaric of me but it was the fact that the author made note twice of him looking up to see himself in certain photos. Those children meant nothing to him nor did those women. Only his vain, self-indulgent pictures. Sick, sick man.


He's at least going away for life.
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Juno: You know, pretty solid! So have you started on that paper for Wart's class yet?

Su Chin: No, I tried to work on ot a little last night but I couldn't concentrate.

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Su Chin: No thanks. I'm off pills.

Juno: Thats a wise choice. Because I like knew this girl who had like this crazy freak out from taking too many behavirol meds at once. And she like ripped off her clothes, and dove into the fountain at Ridgedale mall and was like, "Blah I am a krackin from the sea!"

Su Chin: I heard that was you.



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#122 Deep Sea Philosopher

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 07:22 AM

Simply put, in regards to the purposes of this thread, Sociopaths (Antisocial Personality Disorder) scare the shit out of me. I grew up with one and know what they are capable of.. scary shit with absolutely no remorse.

I have been hearing more people talking about how "dangerous and violent the mentally ill are".. but then again, we had the anniversaries of the OK Bombing (most people viewed McVeigh as mentally instable and the Army rejected him from Special Forces Training because of his psychological profile), Columbine (one of the teens was taking Luvox at the time), and Virginia Tech (whom most people associate all the mentally ill with) this past week.


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#123 Ophelia

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Posted 04 September 2011 - 03:17 PM

Here's another one - the headline is "Family Says Mom Who Murdered Kids Had History of Mental Illness".

Funny thing - you never see anything like "Family Says Mom Who Murdered Kids Had Allergies". Or COPD, or thyroid problems, or sleep apnea....


Every now and then someone does something truly horrible, and the comments I hear are invariably on the order of, "That person must have been sick/mentally ill to do such a thing." My retort? "No self-respecting psychiatric patient would do that" or "Did you know that the mentally ill are more likely to be the victims of violent crime than the perpetrators, and that they are less likely than the general population to commit a crime?"

This nearly always ends the conversation. They don't want to hear it or to talk about it; they'd rather put the criminals into some category that is "not like me or anyone I know".

Which is the reason that I'm pretty open about my mental illness. I'm not a criminal, I pay my bills (although it's more difficult after 8 years of not working due to MI), I'm generous and mostly nice to others, I didn't screw up my kids (although they may not agree), I don't make public scenes by screaming or running naked into the street. And people are invariably surprised to be told I have a mental illness.

I once wrote CNN requesting they publish a story about a mentally-ill person who has a family and job, pays their bills, is a productive and law-abiding citizen, etc. They didn't answer.

I wonder if we have any recourse for this discriminatory treatment, such as the ADA? Could the media be held accountable for perpetuating the stigma and discrimination?
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#124 Ophelia

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Posted 04 September 2011 - 03:31 PM

There was some sick fuck up here that got caught for murder/rape and fetish break ins. He was a high ranking military official, and as calm and calculated as can be.

Russell Williams- sick fuck



See? We do it to ourselves. This guy did something horrible; ergo, he's sick.
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#125 2catsmad

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 11:03 AM



There was some sick fuck up here that got caught for murder/rape and fetish break ins. He was a high ranking military official, and as calm and calculated as can be.

Russell Williams- sick fuck



See? We do it to ourselves. This guy did something horrible; ergo, he's sick.


True, but I can't help and think what he did is truly sick- as in sadistic, and pathologically inhumane. Mental illness is illness. As in treatable. Sociopathy is not.
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Su Chin: Oh hi Juno. How are you?

Juno: You know, pretty solid! So have you started on that paper for Wart's class yet?

Su Chin: No, I tried to work on ot a little last night but I couldn't concentrate.

Juno: Well I can sell you some of my Adderal. If you want.

Su Chin: No thanks. I'm off pills.

Juno: Thats a wise choice. Because I like knew this girl who had like this crazy freak out from taking too many behavirol meds at once. And she like ripped off her clothes, and dove into the fountain at Ridgedale mall and was like, "Blah I am a krackin from the sea!"

Su Chin: I heard that was you.

#126 dymphna

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 08:31 AM


There was some sick fuck up here that got caught for murder/rape and fetish break ins. He was a high ranking military official, and as calm and calculated as can be.

Russell Williams- sick fuck



See? We do it to ourselves. This guy did something horrible; ergo, he's sick.


True, but I can't help and think what he did is truly sick- as in sadistic, and pathologically inhumane. Mental illness is illness. As in treatable. Sociopathy is not.


Sociopathy: when you've been raised by some sick fuck who never got any help. Or not raised at all.


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#127 Her

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Posted 11 November 2011 - 09:15 AM

I think we can blame this one on the religious wing nuts, though.

http://www.startribu.../133644648.html
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#128 Mr_West

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Posted 11 November 2011 - 11:02 PM

Jerry Sandusky.
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#129 dymphna

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 09:22 AM

Jerry Sandusky.


Bing!


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#130 Jerod Poore

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 03:11 PM

Just as it was with Bruce Pardo in 2008, there's been hardly any national coverage of family annihilator Aziz "Bob" Yazdanpanah. Like Pardo, Mr. Yazdanpanah dressed as Santa Claus on Christmas and proceeded to kill his estranged wife, along with their two kids and other family members. Although the body count was much lower and he didn't use a homemade flame thrower, you'd think that killing six people on Christmas when dressed as Santa would be big news. Nope. If there's no crazy, no one seems to care about ho-ho-homicide. Except for bigots who pounced on the family's ethnicity and religion, but those assholes don't count. Replacing one flavor of fearmongering with another is just as vile.

AP story on the shooting

The usual "Nobody would've suspected him of doing anything like that" story

Tarrant county Texas had five domestic shootings with multiple victims in 2011. Is this national news? Of course not.
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#131 Her

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 03:40 PM

If there's no crazy, no one seems to care about ho-ho-homicide.


Holy crap, you make me laugh.

I read the articles you attached. Seems to me that estranged male partners are much more dangerous than the MI. You don't have to be MI to be a murderer. You just have to be an arrogant, self-centered bastard.
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#132 Jerod Poore

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 02:54 PM

This happened last October, and it got some attention, but not enough. Especially when compared with events of a few years back:

A toddler in Foshan, China, was hit by a car and everybody ignores her as she lies dying in the street.

To me this relates to the wall-to-wall coverage of the attacks on school children in China. The usual suspects, NPR, The Guardian, the New York Times, et al., went out of their way to note how most of the attacks were crazy. Turns out that only one of the five guys was actually crazy, and one in five corresponds to the big-ass study (that I can't find today) that identified 17% of China's population as meeting DSM-IV criteria for brain cooties. What the attackers all had in common was growing up during the Cultural Revolution and disputes with corrupt officials. Crazy had nothing to do with. China is just one hell of an awful place to be a kid.
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#133 arieswmn

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 07:00 PM

This article seriously bummed me out. With all the violent crime out there, the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel thinks we need to be concerned with the 1 percent of mentally people who become violent. If there are more stringent standards for committing people, that rare mentally ill violent person will slip through the cracks and kill a bunch of a people.!

http://www.jsonline....-136856268.html
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#134 Jerod Poore

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 04:09 PM

This article seriously bummed me out. With all the violent crime out there, the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel thinks we need to be concerned with the 1 percent of mentally people who become violent. If there are more stringent standards for committing people, that rare mentally ill violent person will slip through the cracks and kill a bunch of a people.!

http://www.jsonline....-136856268.html


Which is why I started this topic. To provide examples of how the non-crazy are the real danger;especially those who drink heavily, or are at least drunk at the time they kill.

Speaking of which, here's a headline you don't see every day:
Accused Homeless Killer Was Spattered with Blood and Not Mentally Ill, D.A. Says
By "homeless killer" they mean the guy allegedly stalked and killed at least four homeless people. The story is pretty much lifted from an AP report by Amy Taxin, where "mentally ill" was in the story but not the headline. Rarely do we a phrase like "no indication that [the killer] is mentally ill," even though that's usually the case. There is actually a good reason to point that out - there's a good chance the guy's lawyer is going to put forth an affirmative defense of crazy.

The defense attorney's plan of arguing for diminished capacity, especially one based on PTSD, is about as grounded in reality as Newt Gingrich's perception of food stamps.

Edited by Jerod Poore, 20 January 2012 - 04:10 PM.
innocent until proven guilty.

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#135 Her

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 06:13 PM

And stay away from drunks, too.
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#136 Jerod Poore

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 01:56 PM

Since I've given up completely on American TV and radio news, can anyone tell me what the coverage of that racist, terrorist scumfuck Wade Michael Page has been like compared with that of James Holmes? I realize Page - fortunately - killed fewer people, so that will make a difference.

He was a terrorist, and an extremely stupid one at that, but not crazy. He had a drinking problem. Alcohol is a factor in ten times as many killings as anything else, but does that matter to the mainstream media? Hell no.

Where's NAMBLA, er NAMI in complaining about the immediate assumption that Page was mentally ill? The most important stigma ever is that we're all mass murderers waiting to explode in a blaze of high-velocity gunfire, and NAMBLA NAMI is nowhere to be seen in disputing that. I guess it must not be in their our best interest to bust that particular stigma against coming out of the mental health closet to get diagnosed and treated.
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#137 Her

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 03:21 PM

No one can make up their mind about James Holmes-is he having a psychotic episode? Is he manic? Or is he deliberately faking it?This ABC story is pretty typical of the coverage I've seen. Uh, I just read the print part. I didn't watch the video. I hate videos.

With Wade Page, the coverage is running heavily to the neo-Nazi/hate crime angle. Apparently this one is not going to be laid at the feet of the mentally ill.
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#138 Classically_James

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 04:42 PM

Andrea Yates had had 4 children previous to her last, with more severe post-partum depression and psychosis after each one. Due to her (and especially her husband's) religious beliefs, the Yates' did not use birth control. She was mostly unresponsive to medication and was under the care of a psychiatrist at the time of the murders - however, I believe that Haldol was causing improvement in her condition, but she stopped taking it just before the murders because she had intense suspicion and paranoia about taking psych meds. She believed that she was saving her children from Hell by killing them before they could be influenced by the devil. Between her intensely frightening delusions, suicidal depression, trying to take care of 5 kids which she was not mentally equiped to handle, a pretty condemning family and religious background, and under the particularly sinister influence of some radical home-made preacher, she didn't stand a chance. Some people that knew her said they were not surprised at what happened, except that most figured she would kill herself before she hurt anyone else. From what I read, her psychiatrist was pretty much completely incompetent and generally ignored her intense suicidal ideation and the fact that her condition was rapidly deteriorating.

Her first trial was a terrible travesty of justice wherein the judge disallowed almost any mention of her psych history as evidence. Andrea was sentenced to life with the possibility of parole after 40 years. Once she was put in jail, over a period of several years her mental condition improved greatly with the aid of medication and good psychiatric care. Thankfully, she won a new trial later on and was found not guilty by reason of insanity. After several years in a high-security MH unit, she is now in a low-security MH facility where she belongs -for now- and will probably gain her freedom one day in the future.

After reading a lot of info including some books by experts on the case, I realized that Andrea Yates was an intensely sick woman, surrounded by people that were completely inadequately prepared to help her. In her case she was suffering under real, diagnosable delusions of a paranoid and religious nature, and she truly, absolutely believed that by killing her kids she was saving them from eternal torment. Now that she is somewhat recovered, I cannot imagine how terrible her grief and guilt must be. She will never escape the knowledge of what she did - and the fact that it was avoidable. I have a lot of compassion for Andrea Yates. The final outcome of her ordeal was the best thing for both her and society.

Susan Smith, who caused her sleeping (she claims) kids to drown by driving her car into a lake in NC, is a whole different story. She wasn't sick, she was evil. One of the main indicators of this was her ability to conceal the car in the lake, and then falsely claim her kids were abducted at gunpoint. The icing on the cake? She said it was a black man, a sure way to distract even more attention from herself in the still racially-charged South. To me, Susan Smith's ability to act like a bereaved mother for weeks while her children were underwater out in a lake by her very own hand, marks her mind as being as sly as a fox. Not exactly a hallmark of a true psychotic state, which is defined in part by disorganization of thought and disregard for consequences. In contrast, Andrea Yates actually called 911 herself immediately after her kids died, and never denied that she did it. The 911 call was also a good indicator of her mental state - it was disjointed, disorganized, and sometimes incomprehensible. Susan Smith got life in prison which IMO is far more than what she deserved.

Just based on some of his life patterns and reactions to certain events leading up to this shooting, along with his behavior so far in court and jail, I believe that James Holmes could have a MH disorder. I suppose that he could be faking, but it's unlikely he will be able to pull it off. It's come out that he was seeing a psychiatrist, although it's unclear if that was voluntary. There are forensic psychiatrists dedicated to screening out people faking psychosis, along with tests of cognitive ability, etc., that are probably exceedingly difficult to fool. I guess the real problem is that both the defense and prosecution will be able to pay so-called psychiatric experts to testify that he is or isn't psychotic based solely on which side for which they are testifying. It's not going to be whether he is actually "crazy", it's going to be about whether the jury believes he is or not. But, again, IMO he was/is mentally ill.

James

Edited by egodystonic_james, 10 August 2012 - 05:17 PM.

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1. Major Depressive Disorder (MDD - atypical type)

2. Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD)

3. Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD)(in partial remission)

4. Cotard's Delusion (removed prior to DSM IV in 1994(in partial remission)  

 

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1  Luvox (fluvoxamine) 100 mg BID 

2. Abilify (aripiprazole) 10 mg QAM 

3. Forfivo XL (bupropion) 450 QAM

4. Seroquel (quetiapine) 100 mg QHS

5. Xanax (alprazolam) 2 mg TID

6. Desyrel  (trazodone) 150 mg QHS 

7. Lunesta (eszopiclone) 3 mg QHS

8. Soma (carisoprodol) 350 mg TID


#139 VAL

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 05:35 PM

I haven't seen anything saying Page was mentally ill...like Her said, it's all about the neo-Nazi angle. He was also in a white supremacist rock band and I was glad to know that I'd never heard of that before. It's the world that's fucked up...not us.
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#140 Classically_James

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 05:47 PM

And I especially hate that the TV bobbleheads are "diagnosing" James Holmes with schizophrenia.....notice in my above post, I said "psychotic disorder." People already have an irrational fear of persons with schizophrenia. Contrary to what the general public seems to believe, schizophrenic people are usually not violent, and are far more likely to hurt themselves than anyone else. Even if Holmes has schizophrenia, it's very sad that many people will extend his behavior as typical of all of those afflicted with the disease. Not fair to those suffering from it at all.

James
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Diagnoses:

1. Major Depressive Disorder (MDD - atypical type)

2. Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD)

3. Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD)(in partial remission)

4. Cotard's Delusion (removed prior to DSM IV in 1994(in partial remission)  

 

Medications:

1  Luvox (fluvoxamine) 100 mg BID 

2. Abilify (aripiprazole) 10 mg QAM 

3. Forfivo XL (bupropion) 450 QAM

4. Seroquel (quetiapine) 100 mg QHS

5. Xanax (alprazolam) 2 mg TID

6. Desyrel  (trazodone) 150 mg QHS 

7. Lunesta (eszopiclone) 3 mg QHS

8. Soma (carisoprodol) 350 mg TID


#141 allieincrazyland

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 06:56 PM

http://www.foxnews.c...s-it-terrorism/

(Note to Her: I'm still working on how to do that)

There is an article on FoxNews that does try very hard to link Wade Michael Page's murderous rampage to mental illness. I will have to say that there is some mention of how the US has a faulty mental health system but the report is highly skewed and is sensational. There's also one on CNN and I'm looking for it now. Will post it when I've found it.
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#142 Her

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 08:09 PM

http://www.foxnews.c...s-it-terrorism/

(Note to Her: I'm still working on how to do that)


Perfect, Allie! The link worked! Yea you!
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#143 nighttime

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 09:13 PM

I too do not watch TV news any longer for obvious reasons. Looking at the women on these news channels
is all I need to do to realize we are being entertained, not informed.
Fair and Balanced? How about unfair and thighs bare?

I've attached a link to a short article that IMO gives reason to consider the "big picture" in the dsyfunction
of our citizens. I don't think mental illness has as much to do with these murderous rampages as much as
the "numbing up and the dumbing down" of our society, via movies, tv, video games, politicians, etc.

I agree with EGO James, Andrea Yates vs. Susan Smith is spot on, but is it not realistic to acknowledge one of our real
enemies IS apathy? For me, I believe tagging these events with an issue in MI is just an excuse to avoid the realization that
apathy is the real issue, as we move from day to day to the next "big news story".

http://www.psychiatr...e/10168/2092557
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#144 dymphna

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 12:40 AM

Andrea Yates

Her first trial was a terrible travesty of justice wherein the judge disallowed almost any mention of her psych history as evidence. Andrea was sentenced to life with the possibility of parole after 40 years. Once she was put in jail, over a period of several years her mental condition improved greatly with the aid of medication and good psychiatric care. Thankfully, she won a new trial later on and was found not guilty by reason of insanity. After several years in a high-security MH unit, she is now in a low-security MH facility where she belongs -for now- and will probably gain her freedom one day in the future.


The first neurologist that didn't immediately dismiss my symptoms as being those of a "hysterical woman" had dual degrees in neurology and neuropsychology. He was the one called to do the assessments of Andrea Yates' mental status. I didn't know this at the time I was seeing him. All I knew was that everyone I had seen had dismissed my symptoms as "crazy" (when they were actually seizures). I still remember him leaning forward after I had failed some part of my physical exam, grasping my hands and saying "I know crazy, and you're not crazy."

I subsequently googled him and discovered he was some bigwig that Baylor University Medical School would call in as an expert witness. He died in 2009 and it still makes me very sad.


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I can find you an answer and I won't blow smoke up your ass.

 

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I'm the Enforcer.

 

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#145 Rane

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 08:57 AM

I just wrote a post saying the media wasn't labeling Wade Michael Page mentally ill, because there's so much evidence that he was a hateful person living in a murderous subculture. I mean, people actually actually paid money his "hate-rock" music. Then I read allieincrazyland's link. WTF?

Even the FBI is calling him a terrorist. Maybe I'm reading the "wrong" papers (see the link) but I thought they'd skipped this bullshit. A few days ago I read that his neighbors called him "scary" but now the papers are back to the isolated-loner-so-surprised-he-did-such-thing.

The Guardian has this profile on him:

wmp from guardian
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#146 dymphna

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 09:03 AM

I just wrote a post saying the media wasn't labeling Wade Michael Page mentally ill, because there's so much evidence that he was a hateful person living in a murderous subculture. I mean, people actually actually paid money his "hate-rock" music. Then I read allieincrazyland's link. WTF?

Even the FBI is calling him a terrorist. Maybe I'm reading the "wrong" papers (see the link) but I thought they'd skipped this bullshit. A few days ago I read that his neighbors called him "scary" but now the papers are back to the isolated-loner-so-surprised-he-did-such-thing.

The Guardian has this profile on him:

wmp from guardian


I love how they all immediately jumped to "domestic terrorist" on this guy as opposed to "hate crime", yet an actual terrorist, MAJ Hasan at Ft. Hood? They refuse to use the word. They'll call him ANYTHING but a terrorist. Even though he has a paper trail with known terrorists and everything. Political games at their finest.


D
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Yes, my name really is Dymphna.

 

I'm not a doctor, nurse, pharmacist, or therapist.

I can find you an answer and I won't blow smoke up your ass.

 

St. Dymphna is the Patron for brain maladies.

 

I'm the Enforcer.

 

eqnmrt.jpg

 


#147 Rane

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 10:14 AM

I don't know much about Ft. Hood, so I can't compare them (and it's a whole other discussion) but I think Wade Michael Page fits the definition of domestic terrorist. I don't what to argue the point because I'm interested in a different point -- who's a crazy killer?

I think the FBI chose to pursue a domestic terrorism story because Page had an ideology, support group, sub-culture, and plans to eliminate entire races of people. I think that organized killers with a political goal (that we abhor) are seen differently and I think -- maybe I'm wrong -- less crazy. It's like the pathology tips from the individual to the organization. The brain cooties are on the White Power culture rather than the racist.

So, the more an individual acts out of isolation, the more likely they'd be labelled "crazy." But when he has so much support that people actually buy his "hate-rock" music, the more he's just an evil guy in an evil (but crazy) sub-culture.

That's just a theory. Personally, I don't think WMP was at all crazy but he was a hateful psychopath. (I didn't read the whole thread. What's the feeling about using the word psychopath.)


definition of domestic terrorism

Edited by Rane, 09 August 2012 - 10:18 AM.

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#148 allieincrazyland

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 10:21 AM

Jerod has been posting on his CrazyMeds FB different links about this kind of thing. It's educational and informative. I looked last night for the article on CNN about Wade Michael Page and didn't find it. I will continue to look for it because I want you all to see it. It, too, refers to him as mentally ill. It does not, however, make any mention of our country's mental health system's need to be reviewed, revamped or thrown out and redone. It bothers me in the most profound of ways that this man is being made to sound mentally ill instead of a white supremacist. His crime targetet Sikhs. He applied to the KKK or had an application at one time depending on your news source. His music is cringeworthily racist. He was frighteningly racist yet there are news agencies asking questions about his mental status. This so soon after they labeled James Holmes mentally ill before they actually had proof. It perpetuates so much of the stigma that surrounds mental illness. It's not just disheartening, it's enough to make the most tolerant of people angry.

I agree with James about both Andrea Yates and Susan Smith. I have tremendous compassion for Andrea Yates and disdain for both her husband and "pastor" who were so instrumental in pushing her to that point. She's an extremely bright woman and I would think, like James, that she's filled with guilt and remorse at what happened that night. Susan Smith proved that the media sometimes can work. They dug the truth out along with a really good prosecutorial team. It happened right across the state line from me in SC - still gets press because we're so rural. Notoriety pays. Crazy.
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#149 Rane

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 11:21 AM

Thanks, allie. I just "liked" Jerrod's CM page.

Here's a Fox article arguing about WMP's possible mental illness. I didn't read it all because I got pissed off. It's too hot here to read stupid things. Basically: maybe hating dark-skinned people masks an underlying mental illness.

fox news on wmp

When I googled "Wade Michael Page" and "crazy," I got some interesting hits.
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#150 Classically_James

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 11:33 AM

Thanks, allie. I just "liked" Jerrod's CM page.

Here's a Fox article arguing about WMP's possible mental illness. I didn't read it all because I got pissed off. It's too hot here to read stupid things. Basically: maybe hating dark-skinned people masks an underlying mental illness.

fox news on wmp

When I googled "Wade Michael Page" and "crazy," I got some interesting hits.


Wow, that article is one of the longest journalistic stretches I've ever read. His only basis for saying WMP may have had MI is that he was discharged "under other than honorable conditions"? That's a bad joke. And I thought someone being D/Ced from the armed forces just for psychological reasons would receive an honorable discharge. I could be wrong, but how is MI "other than honorable"? I guess it will all come out eventually anyway. Funny how desperate they are to make more out of this story.

James

Edited by egodystonic_james, 09 August 2012 - 11:35 AM.

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Diagnoses:

1. Major Depressive Disorder (MDD - atypical type)

2. Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD)

3. Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD)(in partial remission)

4. Cotard's Delusion (removed prior to DSM IV in 1994(in partial remission)  

 

Medications:

1  Luvox (fluvoxamine) 100 mg BID 

2. Abilify (aripiprazole) 10 mg QAM 

3. Forfivo XL (bupropion) 450 QAM

4. Seroquel (quetiapine) 100 mg QHS

5. Xanax (alprazolam) 2 mg TID

6. Desyrel  (trazodone) 150 mg QHS 

7. Lunesta (eszopiclone) 3 mg QHS

8. Soma (carisoprodol) 350 mg TID



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