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Remeron = Bad Sleep. Anyone Try Remeron + Sleep Aid?

Remeron sleep

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#1 jibblybop

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 02:10 PM

I've recently (as of Tuesday, 5/22/2012) started Remeron 15mg for gradschool-induced anxiety+depression. Here's what I've noticed:
I'm a little calmer
I'm a teensy bit hungrier
I'm much more tired at all times
My dreams are extremely vivid
My sleep is poor
I'm not any 'happier', although I know it's still early

I feel like I'm barely sleeping at night, like I'm halfway between dreaming and awake all night. I feel as though if I slept more solidly at night, I would not be so tired during the day. I did have Restless Leg Syndrome the first night on Remeron, but that doesn't happen anymore.

Does this match what others have experienced? It seems like Remeron helps people sleep, for the most part. Has anyone ever been told that mixing Remeron + Sleep Aid is OK, or is not OK?

I have a scheduled appt with my pdoc in 3 weeks, although I could set up an appt sooner to ask about this. I appreciate any advice others can give. Thank you.
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#2 Mr_West

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 10:38 PM

Adding an OTC antihistamine sleep aid would probably be offering a bit more of the same sleep wise, they sedate largely the same way.

How much are you sleeping? When I was on remeron I slept more, but still often felt tired during the day as if I had inadequate sleep. Counter-intuitively taking more remeron can actually help with the daytime sedation while offering more antidepressant action.
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#3 jibblybop

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 11:16 AM

Hi Mr West,
Well, quantifying the amount of sleep I get is difficult. I don't really know how efficiently I sleep. I don't think anybody does unless they monitor it with equipment, or if get perfect sound sleep. Here's my attempt at an approximate chronological record of my sleep patterns:

From '02-'07, I would say I lay in bed for 7 hours, slept for 6.5 (~95%).
Then from '07-'11, I would lie in bed maybe 8-10 hours, but I was probably losing a couple hours each night (~80%).
Then recently, when I started identifying the need for AD's, I would lie in bed for 8-10 hours, but sleep only 5-6 hours (~65%).
I soon thereafter started taking Doxylamine Succinate, and I was back to laying for 8.5 hours at ~95% efficiency.

Now, on Remeron for 6 days, I would say I lay in bed for 10-11 hours (10PM-8:30AMish). I wake up several times in the night, and it takes 15-30 minutes to fall back asleep each time. I lose alot of time in trying to fall asleep initially (usually takes 30-60minutes), and in the morning I'm never really fully asleep after 7AMish. I would guess I'm actually sleeping for ~6 hours, or an efficiency of about ~55%. I FEEL like I've only slept for 3-5 hours when I wake, but I know this feeling is partly because of the Remeron itself.

While I'm eager to feel better, I don't want to increase the dosage until I've given this amount a chance to kick in fully. However, not being able to sleep well is really hard for me.

Edited by astropj1, 27 May 2012 - 11:23 AM.

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#4 jibblybop

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 11:23 AM

Now that I look at what I wrote, I see that I'm sleeping about as much now as I was before I started taking Doxylamine Succinate (~6 hrs). So perhaps it isn't the Remeron keeping me awake, but rather the underlying problem that only allowed me to get those 6 hours to begin with. (?)

This might imply that once the Remeron is kicking in full power, I will be able to sleep through the night. I still really want to take a sleep aid at this point. ugghh...
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#5 Mr_West

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 03:44 AM

Now that I look at what I wrote, I see that I'm sleeping about as much now as I was before I started taking Doxylamine Succinate (~6 hrs). So perhaps it isn't the Remeron keeping me awake, but rather the underlying problem that only allowed me to get those 6 hours to begin with. (?)

This might imply that once the Remeron is kicking in full power, I will be able to sleep through the night. I still really want to take a sleep aid at this point. ugghh...


One really tricky thing about sleep is that people don't always understand what healthy sleep is, and can stress themselves out seeking a more perfect sleep.

Waking up even a couple times at night can be part of healthy sleep. Roughly every 90 minutes the brain goes through its sleep cycle from shallow to deep back to so shallow you might wake up. When you wake up like that it really is just a waiting game. Try to worry less about the numbers and look more at how you feel in the morning.

Remeron is a drug that can leave you with 24 hour exhaustion though, especially at 15mg. 30mg is less sedating and easier to function on, and 45mg is a very potent dose for depression with much less sedation. A higher dose of remeron and a Z-drug like ambien if you still need a sleep aid.

Talk to your doctor about sleep, but emphasize how you are feeling in the morning and how you would rather feel then. Let all of the sleep stuff support that goal.
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Not a medical professional. I have been asked whether I am a magician or scientist. Maybe I am neither, maybe I'm both. Take things I've written more than a year or two ago with more than a couple grains of salt, because people learn. I mean who thinks that when the house cat finally catches that bunny rabbit in the yard the bunny is going to kick the cat's ass, but once you see it you have to reconcile it with your existing view of the world.

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#6 jibblybop

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 10:38 AM

hmm....I don't like zombie-me, but I am aware that it's part of the medicine. It's mostly heavy eyes and weak (tired) muscles all over.

Since first posting about it, though, I think the zombie-like feeling may have subsided a little. I'll keep updates going to see how it changes.
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#7 jibblybop

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 05:44 PM

Well, I'm nearing the end of the third week of Remeron 15mg. I can say that my sleep has improved. I feel slightly more well rested in the morning, but I'm still a zombie throughout the day. I think this may be as good as it will get.

On a side note, my anger levels have been climbing. I'm back to breaking my possessions, driving recklessly, and thinking about suicide. I'm currently thinking about smashing his laptop against the wall. I don't know if a higher dose will help with that. I don't even know if this dosage has kicked in yet. These meds are really frustrating.
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#8 LunaLovegood

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 02:54 AM

astropj1,

I tried mirtazapine a few years ago, it did not improve my mood, gave me a headache all day and made ​​me tired... My sleep was not good.
Last year I tried the mianserin to improve my sleep (it's almost identical to mirtazapine) and it made me like what you describe: halfway between dreaming and awake all night. What a shit...

doxepin (TCA) is one of the few drugs that have made ​​a small improvement to my sleep problems. why not ask your pdoc to try a TCA ?
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Past meds :
AD : citalopram, doxepin (little effective sleep aid), anti-anxiety/sleep aid : hydroxyzine, stimulant : ritaline
failed meds :
mirtazapine (no effect on mood, just an awful headache from the fisrt taking untill last taking), bromazepam (you want to get me angry ? give me 2 quarters of a bromazepam pill), valerian + aubepin... (I can swallow 10 of these pills or more, I feel no effect), buspirone (for rage ?), sodium valproate,alprazolam, as sleep aid : amitriptyline, mianserin, alprazolam.

#9 nukesandchems

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 09:58 PM

I'm on 45mg and I don't think it does a damn thing. My pdoc put me on it when I stopped clonazepam in 2011 to combat some anxiety I might have had while I tapered down. All it has done is made me hungry at night. I had RLS from it in the beginning as well, despite the pdoc telling me several times it shouldn't do that. Whatever! And...I've been mixing it with Ambien in the past, and now Lunesta. Again, I don't sleep but I never had any problems with combining the two.
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Diagnosis: Bipolar Disorder, Panic Disorder, PTSD, OCD, Fibromyalgia
Meds Now: 300mg Lamictal, 1000mg Depakote ER, 200mg Luvox ER, 800mg Seroquel XR, 1mg Klonopin (at night), 1mg Klonopin prn
Meds Tried: Serzone, Paxil, Lexapro, Doxepin, Neurontin, Ativan, Seroquel, Tegretol, Topamax, Effexor XR, Geodon, Valium, Zyprexa, Abilify, Lyrica, Wellbutrin, Trazodone, Ambien, Remeron, Cogentin, Latuda, Lunesta, Propranolol ER

 

My cocktail has been tapered down to a few good meds! YAY!

 

 

 


#10 jlmass

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 02:42 PM

I know what you mean about the feeling like you don't know if you are dreaming your awake or you are awake. i have taken 15mg of remeron for about a year for sleep and sometimes i get the same feeling for a couple of nights in a row and then it goes away for awhile. I have not tried going up to 30 mg to see if it would help. I will talk to Dr in July about it.
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