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Topamax And Carbonated Drinks


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#1 In_Remission_lyuv

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 02:03 AM

OK, it's well known that Topamax kills the taste of carbonated drinks. It acts as an inhabitor for Carbonic Anhydrase, which is necessary for the CO2 (fizz) tasting system.

This inability to have fizzy drinks is killing me. It's bad not only for my spirit, but for my kidneys too. Did anyone look for ways around it? like:

1) Neutralizing the carbonic anhydrase inhibitor (assuming it's needed only for epilepsy, and not for my migraine).

2) Add some carbonic anhydrase to the mouth with or just before drinking (it functions outside the taste cells).

3) Encourage the body to manufacture more carbonic anhydrase, to overcome what is lost to the Topamax.



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#2 In_Remission_TndBay

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 01:45 PM

I just drink it anyway, ...... Going to Plead Loony Toons on this one, If you don't know it's not a side effect .... IT MAY NOT BE ONE FOR YOU.
My Pdoc knows 2-4L of Diet Coke is my vise..... My deal with him is I equal it with water.... Drugs dry me out Bad. Never heard of the topamax and fiss killer. It has never been a problem. Ginger ale to Dr pepper to Dew To Diet Coke.....

#3 dymphna

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 01:13 AM

OK, it's well known that Topamax kills the taste of carbonated drinks. It acts as an inhabitor for Carbonic Anhydrase, which is necessary for the CO2 (fizz) tasting system.

This inability to have fizzy drinks is killing me. It's bad not only for my spirit, but for my kidneys too. Did anyone look for ways around it? like:

1) Neutralizing the carbonic anhydrase inhibitor (assuming it's needed only for epilepsy, and not for my migraine).

2) Add some carbonic anhydrase to the mouth with or just before drinking (it functions outside the taste cells).

3) Encourage the body to manufacture more carbonic anhydrase, to overcome what is lost to the Topamax.


When you start with a bad assumption... "assuming it's needed only for epilepsy, and not for my migraine" ... you end up searching in the wrong place for answers. You have to recognize a couple of things:

Common Pathophysiologic Mechanisms in Migraine and Epilepsy


Molecular Pharmacology of Topiramate: Managing Seizures and Preventing Migraine

(same bat time, same bat channel...)


Topiramate modulates pH of hippocampal CA3 neurons by combined effects on carbonic anhydrase and Cl/HCO3 exchange

This study showed that TPM at therapeutically relevant concentrations of 25–50 μm lowers the steady-state pHi of hippocampal neurons. The underlying mechanism is based on a combined effect of TPM on carbonic anhydrase and, as demonstrated for the first time, on Na+ --independent Cl-HCO3 exchange. In line with this, the suppressive effect on epileptiform activity in the 4-AP epileptic model system could be reversed by an intracellular alkalinization with TMA. Based on our former pHi studies on epileptic model systems, the anticonvulsive effect of TPM is at least in part attributable to the pHi regulatory effects of TPM.


Blah blah blah -- the mechanism of the drug works in part because of the CAI -- it is irrelevant if it is being used for epilepsy (hard to read study right above) or for migraine (study above that which shows they're just two shitty stops on one long-ass continuum of brain cooties).


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#4 In_Remission_lyuv

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 05:04 AM

Dymphna,
First, thanks !
Second - I"m on dopamax (a bag of rocks will outsmart me) and english is not my language. So please be easy on me.

I couldn't read (or understand) the articles. All I understood was there are common mechanisms for migraine and epilepsy. I guess at some point the two diseases must get different. Did the research show that the CAI is a usefull function for migrain? I"m not arguing, just want to understand.

In anycase, even if the CA's ass needs too get kicked, it needs to get kicked in the brain. Not on my tongue. So I still wonder if there is a way to counteract/compensate for that CA inhabition for taste sake.

#5 dymphna

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 06:21 AM

Dymphna,
First, thanks !
Second - I"m on dopamax (a bag of rocks will outsmart me) and english is not my language. So please be easy on me.

I couldn't read (or understand) the articles. All I understood was there are common mechanisms for migraine and epilepsy. I guess at some point the two diseases must get different. Did the research show that the CAI is a usefull function for migrain? I"m not arguing, just want to understand.

In anycase, even if the CA's ass needs too get kicked, it needs to get kicked in the brain. Not on my tongue. So I still wonder if there is a way to counteract/compensate for that CA inhabition for taste sake.


And I *really* don't know your language! Or any of the languages in that region...

Yes, common mechanisms for migraine and epilepsy, up to a point. For some reason, migraine "stops" at a point on the "something is going wrong" line, and seizures "keep going" to cause the neurons to fire too often.

If you are a person that has success with Topamax for migraine (not everyone does), then yes, CAI is a useful function for migraine. People have different types of migraine. That is why some people will respond only to Topamax, and some people will respond only to something like Amitriptyline.

The CAI is being kicked in your brain, not on your tongue. Your brain is sending a message to your taste buds that things are "different".

Here is an example: I am sitting here drinking mineral water with gas. In my mouth, I can "feel" the bubbles. I can "roll" them around my tongue. I already know that they do not taste like anything - they are water. If I were to drink a can of Coke, I could also "feel" the bubbles in my mouth if it was a very "fresh" drink. Only then, they would not taste like I wanted them to taste -- like Coke -- I would be drinking Coke syrup in water with bubbles in it.

The same thing happens with any food I eat. A bread becomes a stiff piece of paper. A ganoush becomes a paste. Everything suddenly needs MORE spice, MORE texture. This is the main reason people lose weight on Topamax -- food becomes unappealing.

So - for your drinks? The aspartame in Diet Coke is horrible for migraine. You should stay away from that anyway. You need a new vice. Fizzy water with lemon or lime. (Fizzy = mineral water with gas) You will "feel" the bubbles. The lemon or lime will be sharp enough to taste. If you need caffeine, you can actually alternate with some iced teas or coffees.

I know it is not the answer you are looking for. I have been on Topamax for ten years now. I could always tell when my dose needed adjusting when I could suddenly "taste" Coke. Jerod has ALWAYS been able to taste Coke. Some people get the side effect worse than others.

By the way - you shouldn't feel stupid. What dose are you on? Topamax should be dosed according to how well it works, not "ok, we only give people with migraine 50 mg".


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I can find you an answer and I won't blow smoke up your ass.

 

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I'm the Enforcer.

 

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#6 dymphna

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 06:23 AM

Oops - just combined two posters - diet Coke / Aspertame is still bad. Aspertame is an excitotoxin: it makes your neurons fire at an abnormally high rate. Why anyone would want to combine that with ANY kind of brain cooties is beyond me.


d
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#7 In_Remission_lyuv

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 01:34 AM

I"m not sure you are correct about HOW topamax affects taste, and specifically that of carbonated drinks. I found several references, and most importantly that one: http://www.sciencema...6/5951/443.full . It seems the mechanism that "identifies" CO2 for taste purposes is located on the exterior of the sour tasting cells. It relies on carbonic anhydrase to do it's trick with co2 and water. The products include a proton, which triggers the signal of "hey, we got a bit of sour taste here!".

The above article claim they clearly showed the carbonation sensation is directly related to the presence of CA on the taste buds (rather than to the way taste is relayed or translated). At least for me, Topamax didn't change the taste of other things, including those with aspertame. It just reduced my cravings, and I get full with lesser amounts. Food still taste good, and I do enjoy it, with the sole exception of carbonation.

And about stupidity - my dose is 100mg a day. I know it's not that high, but yet, I do forget words or spelling from time to time. only couple times a day, but it's enough to embarrass and make me feel stupid. I also feel that sometimes I have to struggle with mental tasks more than I would expect. However, since I AM aware of the POSSIBLE dumbing effect of topamax, it's hard to negate a placebo effect.

I"m new to topamax. I used Depalept (Valproic Acid) with great results. Do you know if that suggests Topamax would work for me?

Last but not least - You write about aspertame "not being excellent" for migraine. That's news for me. I consume lots of it for my exess weight. Do you know if aspertame is bad for ALL migrains, or can it be related to specific types (perhaps according to drugs effectiveness?)

Thanks,

#8 justmary

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 09:18 PM

I can tell you what worked for me. Comming off of it for a few months and then going back on. I never did get the funny taste thing the second go around.
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#9 dymphna

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 12:50 AM

I can tell you what worked for me. Comming off of it for a few months and then going back on. I never did get the funny taste thing the second go around.


Yes, Topamax (and many other medications) seems to vary in its efficacy and/or side effects when stopped and restarted.*

As an FYI to the OP: this section (Topamax) has multiple threads on this side effect.


Dymphna

*I'm referring to stopping and starting the same brand -- it would be reasonable to expect differences if one were to start a different brand due to differences in inactive ingredients, manufacturing, etc.
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Yes, my name really is Dymphna.

 

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I can find you an answer and I won't blow smoke up your ass.

 

St. Dymphna is the Patron for brain maladies.

 

I'm the Enforcer.

 

eqnmrt.jpg

 


#10 In_Remission_TndBay

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 08:22 PM

Oops - just combined two posters - diet Coke / Aspertame is still bad. Aspertame is an excitotoxin: it makes your neurons fire at an abnormally high rate. Why anyone would want to combine that with ANY kind of brain cooties is beyond me.


d


I have learned ...(Great PDoc) that very often P-meds vary or have opposite effects from one patient to the other. The caffine does not seem to be a rush, seems to be calming to anxiety issues.

#11 Elou

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 04:21 PM

I'm on 75mg and I can detect the slightest change in my Diet Cola. It tastes saltier, but the fizz remains. I actually really like it! But I would have to agree with the previous poster who suggested adding lemon juice to water, especially the fresh stuff. You could alternatively get a SodaStream machine (an appliance that carbonates water at home) and make it super carbonated.
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#12 hulahoopholly

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 02:07 AM

I have only been on Topamax for three days at 25mg per day and I had a Dr. Pepper today and it tasted strange.  I asked someone else to taste it to see if it was a side effect or if the drink was actually flat because it was from a fast food business.  Turns out I already have acquired the side effect.  Needless to say, I let her keep the Dr. Pepper.


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#13 obsidian3

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 05:43 AM

This is a great opportunity to clean up the nutrition and give up the carbonated lolly water.  As Dymphna said,  the best thing to drink is sparkling mineral or soda water zinged up with a generous squeeze of lemon or lime juice.   Tastes fresh and it's great for the diet.


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