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Latuda - The Good And Bad So Far


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#1 In_Remission_freethinker

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 10:52 PM

I've now taken 12 doses of Latuda 40mg. I also take clonazepam 1mg 3X. I've been treating bp since 1996. The anti-convulsants have all caused severe joint pain and have all affected my type 1 diabetes poorly. I've used all the AAP drugs except for Saphris and Fanapt. So far Latuda has been the friendliest to my type 1 diabetes. Most of you out there who have diabetes or know someone who does, probably has type 2 which is most often caused by behavior or medications like AAP's. Type 1 is much rarer - about 10% of diabetics have type 1. I got it when I was a kid, was skinny, and had no choice but to take insulin or die. It's tough treating bp when you have diabetes. Latuda has so far been the most benign of the AAP drugs. It's working well for my mood - not perfectly of course - and it's also helping a whole lot with anxiety and even OCD anxiety. I'm waking up way too frak'n early, though. My appetite has dropped especially at dinner when I'm taking Latuda as prescribed. I'm now only eating about 450 calories at dinner compared to nearly 1000 just a week ago. That may not be such a good thing, though for me. I now only weigh about 157lbs and was 132 last October(OCD stuff). I was obese back in the Seroquel/Depakote days which I ended in 2007 and the changes in my diet came unaided at first then with gradual, manageable changes in my lifestyle including daily strenuous exercise I am what I am today.

Right away after starting Latuda I noticed a pretty strong anti-depressant effect. The anti-manic effect took a bit longer, but I'm happy to say that it did arrive. I had just the slightest bit of akithisia - nothing like the horror that I experienced on Geodon. The effects on my anxiety and OCD have been quite profound and welcome.

The problem is waking up earlier and earlier. I had been used to going to bed just past 8 and getting up at about 315am to eat breakfast, workout, and do the rest of the stuff the day must include, but now I've been awake since 10pm after falling asleep at 615pm. Yesterday it was 1237am, the day before 105am, then 115am. In order to add some time to my sleep I began trying to get into sleep-mode by shortly after 6pm instead of 8pm. Yesterday I was barely able to stay awake till 6, but then I was up at 10.

This drug works well alongside my diabetes and has not induced the feeding frenzy of the other AAP's or that beast Depakote. It's also begun to provide some much needed mood relief and anxiety relief, but this sleeping less and less is too much like what Lamictal did. I was on Lamictal for 23 months and had insomnia about 95% of that time and was confused, pissed-off, and almost always hypomanic.

Trazadone causes rapid heart beat, Seroquel high blood sugar big time plus the hunger, Abilify - I slept, did well on the mania, not too well for depression, slept pretty well though. The other sleep aids were worthless, but maybe that was because they were up against Lamictal.

Any input?

Edited by freethinker, 15 August 2011 - 02:59 AM.




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#2 In_Remission_freethinker

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 08:04 AM

I have an appointment for next Monday with my pdoc, but I just called his office and explained to a staffer my situation. I'm not looking for a sleeping pill since those just didn't work for me at all. Trazadone allowed me about 5 days and then stopped, dose increase, another 5 days, stop, and the same thing until the dose got as high as it could go. As of the end of June 2010(quit Lamictal) I had been sleeping well until about 3 or 4 days after I started Latuda. He'll probably take me off of it. Frak. Other then the insomnia I really was beginning to like Latuda a lot. Frak again. It's not at all easy for any of us to find the right med, but when you are also taking insulin and working hard to keep your diabetes under tight control then treating bp becomes really difficult. The first generation AP's caused a lot of dystonia and Sun-sensitivity along with other problems. I walk everywhere that I go so being out in the Sun is a pretty common thing for me. Abilify was milder on my diabetes than some AAP's were, but it really beefed up my appetite which made diabetes tough to control due to insulin resistance from the drug plus the junk-food that I ate while on it. I guess that if Abilify kills me in 8 - 10 years then that is better than me doing that deed in a month or two or less. Decisions, decisions. Maybe he'll have another plan. Maybe Saphris. I've heard that it's supposed to have a low incidence of causing hyperglycemia and that some people really sleep well on it since it affects the histamine H1 receptor, but that can increase appetite, too. I've read that some do fine as far as appetite and some gain weight big time. Oh well, it could be worse.

#3 charlottesweb

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 03:54 PM

You have given a vivid description. My doctor has just (today) suggested this medication for me. I am interested in hearing about others' responses to this.
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#4 In_Remission_freethinker

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 10:53 PM

My pdoc's staffer called back and told me to take Latuda with breakfast to see if that works out. I see him on Monday so I'll know by then, before then really. This should be interesting since on almost every single day I perform a strenuous workout about 25 minutes after I finish eating breakfast. The workout last a little over an hour. Latuda can really put your d*ck in the dirt when it comes to energy levels shortly after taking it.

If it weren't for this insomnia thing I'd rate Latuda at 4 stars out of 5 as of right now, since it has worked so well for so many of my issues without increasing hunger(500 less calories per day due to just not being hungry for them), a very, very small impact on my diabetes, and only a few other minor side-effects besides the insomnia. I had better keep an eye on my calories, though, since I'm only 157 at 5'10.5" and my OCD tends me to seek out the thin in me. Last October I had to be hospitalized since I was only 132lbs. I can't take anti-depressants to treat it. Latuda has helped with some of my OCD symptoms, but it's still too early to tell.

If I were you charlottesweb, I'd give Latuda the old college try. During the first few days I was rather irritable when I was at my part-time job in a grocery store. I had to be really careful not to let the flames under my collar show, but that quickly wore off. The anti-manic effect took considerably longer to arrive than the anti-depressant, but it was quite noticeable when it showed up. I will have to say that last year when I used Abilify it didn't provide any anti-d, but its anti-manic was more potent than Latuda in my personal experience that is.

Good luck to all who will give Latuda a try sometime in the future.

#5 In_Remission_freethinker

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 10:17 AM

So since I didn't sleep well last night, I really have my fingers crossed for tonight. I took my Latuda at about 120am which was about 9 hours after I would have taken it if I had continued taking it with dinner. I did well on the stationary bike and my upper-body workout went just fine, too. After I showered I had to walk to the store that I work at to cash in some coins. The fatigue was beginning to show itself at that point and has popped up here and there as the morning has gone by. I really need to get my sleep-wake cycle back in order. That's the one thing that Latuda has really frak'd up. If I can't by the time that I see my pdoc on Monday I will have to ask him about other options and then prepare to loosen my belt and pack on the lbs/kg again and watch my diabetes go out of control once again. I've done so well for almost 4 years now since I've been off of Seroquel and Depakote other then the brief time I was on Abilify last year. Last year I was sleeping, though, while on Abilify and I had been sleeping unaided up to when I started Latuda, but I was constantly rapid-cycling and finding myself in mixed episodes so I was pretty miserable despite the 7 hours of sleep per night. I cycle very often, but with Latuda those cycles have been dramatically softened in just 13 doses, but I fear that the lack of sleep will quickly and powerfully alter that and that is why I am even considering Abilify or another feeeding-frenzy drug.

I was diagnosed in 1996. Anti-depressants were used almost my whole time with bp up until 2008. I used to just trust doctors. When I was a kid growing up I took the usual cold medicines for cough and runny nose, antibiotics when I had a bacterial infection, and otc pain pills for headaches and stuff - I used to suffer migraines when I was growing up on an almost daily basis. Those drugs had side-effects, but I was naive and just took what mom got from the doctor for me. The WWW wasn't around so I just sat back and trusted them. Then 1996 comes around and I'm still stuck in that "trust the doctor," mode of thinking. The WWW still wasn't much and dial-up was a major hassle to deal with so I didn't investigate. I ended up on drugs which compelled me to eat while they also caused severe insulin-resistance. I was in such turmoil that I had no idea what was what and I begged for more and more anti-depressants along with AAP's and Depakote. I continued to be naive and took the pills prescribed thinking that soon the pain would end. I'm pretty sure that using those anti-depressants for so long is a big part of why I cycle so frequently and suffer mixed-episodes, too. Even though I don't use them anymore the effect is still there. I've read about it at psycheducation.org. The problem has been studied by scientists and it's been labeled, "kindling." Although I have no empirical evidence that I have been, "kindled," I'm pretty sure that is what has happened to me. I would recommend to anyone with bp to think for a long, long time before ever popping any Prozac, Zoloft, or any other AD.

#6 In_Remission_visualizations

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Posted 21 August 2011 - 01:12 AM

I would start a healthy sleep stack. Melotonin, L-theanine, Alpha Lipoic Acid lowers my energy at night but is subtle, 2 chamomile teas. I have sleep problems also from lowering my risperdal dose to minute sublingual doses. It keeps my psychosis from going out of wack, but lets me live. I might switch to latuda soon since it tackles less receptors, and the partial 5hta1 agonism looks promising. There are studies where 5ht7 modulation provided an immediate anti-depressant effect. Black Cohosh is a 5ht7 antagonist and 5hta1 modulator. Its used for menopause. Its contraindicated with risperdal though I start visually hallucinating, so I dont take it anymore since ive been on risperdal for several months. Risperdal is a potent CNS depressant, so I'm looking to switch to maybe 10mg-20mg latuda. When I was on black cohosh, I was a social butterfly at work, able to manipulate the floor without a sweat. It has similar mechanisms to Latuda except the D2 and adrenoceptor 2c blockade. If you want to switch to another medication, I would try black cohosh at 3 pills in the morning to get those effects that you like about Latuda. At first it gives you a headache, but it goes away after a few days. You can try upping your dose by week 1, 2 then 3. I recently took some and it had a sensual immediate anti-depressant effect. The only problem is that it makes your penis soft, but not small.

How is your cognition on Latuda? In the studies it was found to counteract NMDA antagonism, schizophrenics are NMDA hypofunctional. The risperdal slows my consciousness stream of thought down to a trickle, but it has helped my partial recovery from continuous loud voices into periodic low voices. That is why im functional on low dose risperdal, but if I don't take it I get out of wack. It has also made me colder with all the dopamine and serotonin blockade.

How would you describe your:
Cognition speed
Idea worth
Sexual function
Sedation
Intimacy towards people

As risperdal has slowed all these things down for me to a trickle. Hope the Latuda works for me. Talk to your doctor about possible natural alternatives to sleep. I think your body just needs to adjust to the rhythm overtime.

Edited by visualizations, 21 August 2011 - 01:19 AM.


#7 In_Remission_freethinker

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Posted 21 August 2011 - 03:56 AM

visualizations,

I had to switch to Abilify on Friday. I was "Black Boxed" by Latuda unfortunately. On Tuesday I began becoming suicidal. On Thursday this was getting really bad and it was so out of character as far as "lately" goes. I called my pdoc's office and they told me to go to the ER. I did so and they sent me home after about 9 hours. They agreed that Latuda had caused the suicidal ideations since I wasn't having them right before I went on it, told me to stop taking it, and my pdoc told them to tell me to get in touch with his office the next morning to make an appointment for that day instead of waiting until Monday. Wellbutrin also caused this and so did Trileptal, but those were the only meds that black boxed me. I slept well on Friday after taking the Abilify. I never had the problems with insomnia on Abilify that lots of people do. It doesn't make nearly as sleepy as Seroquel did, but it's a pretty powerful sleep inducer for me.

I do take passion flower at night along with calium citrate and magnesium citrate. Passion flower helps me to fall asleep, but doesn't last the whole night when up against a drug that is causing early waking. Melatonin doesn't work well for me. I've never heard of Black Cohosh before, but I wrote it down on a piece of paper next to my keyboard and I'm going to check to see if any place around me carries it and if not then try online. Does it cause insomnia? That's a deal breaker for me if it does. On Abilify I do wake up more often and have vivid dreams(don't mind them, though), but I'm able to go to sleep and for the past 2 nights I've slept 8 hours each night. My sleep-wake cycle is still frak'd up as far as I'm falling asleep about 2 hours earlier and waking about an hour earlier than what I had been before I started Latuda, but that's okay for a loner(by circumstance not by choice).

To answer your questions: My cognition was fine on Latuda. I was able to quickly solve mathematical equations in my head like I do so often(OCD), remember tasks I needed to do, and keep people's names I work with straight. The speed was there as usual and only slowed a bit when I was feeling the fatigue caused by the insomnia. I haven't had sex in over 13.5 years(I know...), but was able to get a boner, no problem. The sedation was only a problem after the insomnia became more prominent. At first Latuda put my d*ck in the dirt shortly after I took it(tired I mean), but that wore off after about 7 days. When I'd wake up I was ready to go, no problem. Intimacy towards people? I have no idea. There is absolutelu no one on this planet who wants more than a moment or two of my time unfortunately. I've come to accept that, but I still don't like it. Oh well.

If it hadn't had been for the suicidal thoughts that are possible with all of the psych meds, I would have continued taking Latuda and waited for my body to adjust for at least another 2 or 3 weeks since it did such a wonderful job reducing depression, anxiety, and even OCD symptoms whether directly or indirectly I'm not sure.

Good luck to you should you try Latuda and remember that anyone can get black boxed from psych meds, Latuda is no more or less apt to do it.

#8 Mr_West

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Posted 21 August 2011 - 04:04 AM

My pdoc's staffer called back and told me to take Latuda with breakfast to see if that works out. I see him on Monday so I'll know by then, before then really. This should be interesting since on almost every single day I perform a strenuous workout about 25 minutes after I finish eating breakfast. The workout last a little over an hour. Latuda can really put your d*ck in the dirt when it comes to energy levels shortly after taking it.


For some reason, AAPs seem to be particularly picky about your stomach contents. Seroquel kind of cares, Geodon really cares, and Latuda is really new so this information may be harder to find for it.

Latuda sounds interesting enough that I kind of would like universal healthcare in the US so I wouldn't have to wait more than a decade for it to go off patent before I can afford to keep some around as a crisis med instead of Zyprexa (although I would love to go 15 years without a crisis). I could never take it regularly for the same reason I can't take other AAPs too long, the parkinsonism beats me like a bitch. I recently quit smoking and am still taking Zyban and nicotine lozenges with the occasional cigar (constructing a future where I never smoke ever doesn't seem cool) because I was born with an abnormally low number of dopamine receptors.

I would start a healthy sleep stack. Melotonin, L-theanine, Alpha Lipoic Acid lowers my energy at night but is subtle, 2 chamomile teas. I have sleep problems also from lowering my risperdal dose to minute sublingual doses.


Supplement stacks, and this is the first time I've seen the term outside of bodybuilding/athletics, worry me on the conceptual level. In this case the melatonin especially since it may work in ways that interfere with some medications. The L-theanime doesn't seem to worry to me (I am not a doctor or pharmacist) because glutamates like it can be found in a warm glass of whole milk.

The Lipoic acids worry me most of all as a general recommendation. Even dietary sources "rich" in them don't tend to have all that much relative to a Snicker's bar, people tend not to have very high free levels of them in the first place, and they work as chelation agents which have a very ugly history, especially in child psychiatry. Kudos if they work for you, but they trouble me personally even more so than melatonin as a general recommendation. I admit I get some from eating broccoli twice a week (fried in leaf lard to capture other fatty acids or cooked in a skillet with salmon fillets if I can afford them). Lipolic acids are questionable in their antioxidant action, and I prefer a measured dose of very red wine for that (in other threads I mention my preference for the delicious Hungarian Egri Bikaver in small doses for that. Maybe it is just me, but for an organic acid the body can synthesize itself I find alpha lipoic acid to be as troubling a Phen-Phen.
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#9 In_Remission_visualizations

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 09:29 AM

Thanks for the info Mr. West. Red Wine Extract also seems to have a calming anti-manic effect that lasts 3 hours. I am schizophrenic, so I'm almost done with a bottle of alpha lipoic acid. My urine comes out acidic. My skin is more youthful, and its supposed to regenerate Glutathione which schizophrenics have a dysregulation for. As with any supplement, there are bad things about it. I have been taking many antioxidants and supplements including green tea extract and vit c and e. There is massive brain inflammation in schizophrenia, and antioxidants have more placid effects than NSAIDS they feel too weird. And overall my symptoms came down 60%.

The black cohosh:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12952416
http://journals.prou...d=3916&p_IsPs=Y

I never had any psychotic symptoms while I was taking it. It enhances color a little bit, and improves mood. Then overtime it works like a novel antidepressant. Not that I didn't have bad times while on it, but I was very productive while on it. I cant take 5htp, and St Johns wort for depression since its the opposite of an antipsychotic, so I was looking for alternatives.

Edited by visualizations, 25 August 2011 - 09:38 AM.


#10 In_Remission_GardenFairie

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 05:46 AM

I take 40mg Latuda at night to help with my sleep. Wouldn't want to take it in the day for that reason. FYI: BEST med I've ever been on. Feels like no med, cause any side effects at night while asleep. Plus lost 15lbs from the 40 I gained on seroquel!

#11 iLove

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 02:10 PM

I'm sorry. I tried to follow what you were saying, but it was very hard to read so much all together.

Are you taking it at night? I take mine about an hour before bed and sleep better than I ever have. I have trouble staying asleep. If I don't take it I wake up all through the night.

It's really a wonderful drug. There are no side effects that I've noticed. It just does its job. I liked the calming effect of Abilify better, but I can live without the side effects, such as feeling like a zombie and an out of control appetite.

It sounds like you are right about needing to get back on a regular sleep schedule. Did you say something about exercising late in the evening? That'll keep you up. Also, things like going to the store. I don't do anything that is really stimulating for about an hour or two before bed and go to bed at the same time most nights. Then I have to turn my brain off and tell it to go to sleep because if I let it, it'll think all night.

I'd talk to my doctor before starting any supplements, even if they are over the counter.

Good luck to you!
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